Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mr-jp on October 16, 2023, 12:13:14 pm

Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on May 03, 2024, 08:53:02 am
Thanks for the advice again CP, I followed your instructions & did everything on Monday morn. I will receive an email update on any decision/hearing date. Will let you know when I hear back from the tribunal.

Also, had already sent the copy of my reps over.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: cp8759 on April 27, 2024, 06:50:22 pm
With the best will in the world your posts above make little sense, not least because of your liberal use of the term "they" which seems to interchangeably describe TFL, TEC and the tribunal, which are all completely separate bodies to each other. Fortunately it's pretty clear from the documents what the situation is now.

There's a few thing you want to do first thing on Monday: call the tribunal on 020 7520 7200 and ask for your email to be added to the case, change the comms preference to email (this eliminates any risk of postal issues going forwards), and ask them to email you a copy of the evidence pack (this way you can have the original PDFs rather than fiddling about with a paper copy). Also, and this is of critical importance, tell them that you want any appeal to be listed for a hearing rather than a postal decision.

Have you sent a copy of the representations to the tribunal? If not, email it now to queries@londontribunals.gov.uk with the case number in the subject line. Even if you've sent it by post, send it again via email.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on April 23, 2024, 01:23:49 pm
Apologies also, I have read through the latest letter again and it is actually NOW being referred to the adjucator and then they will decide if the matter is listed for appeal or not.

Then they will decide if I have to pay the penalty charge or charge certificate cost.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on April 22, 2024, 02:15:32 pm
Apologies for the delay as I have also been dealing with other road issues aside from this case. I will post everything now but to clarify, I sent a PE3 Stuatory Declaration Form to the TEC when it was time. They said it was the wrong form & requested me to complete a TE9 & TE7 form together & send those back to them. After that, my forms were rejected and then they automatically said an adjucator is on the case from that point and I can make further reps or pay £160.

They rejected it stating that they followed all regulations and they sent a reply to my appeal via first class post (which I didn't receive). I have noticed that TFL have written my address wrong in their letter to me & also the new keeper address. Not sure if that means anything.

The last thing that is being asked of me is to send evidence of my witness statement & a copy of appeals I made to the enforcement authority by 24th April.

I have attached most corresponce I have received here in this link

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hENsrXFtEe7YY-TvxnL3uH9C0MqBoARM
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: cp8759 on April 21, 2024, 06:16:48 pm
Hey CP, this is still on going atm and is at the adjucator stage.
@mr-jp I suggest you urgently post up all the paperwork you've received, this could all go terribly wrong if it's not handled properly.

The fact that you've said you're "awaiting a decision from the adjudicator" indicates you're on the wrong track already and if by the time you show us the paperwork you've been given a direction to pay, it'll be too late for anyone to do anything about it.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on April 18, 2024, 07:57:46 am
Hey CP, this is still on going atm and is at the adjucator stage. I filed a statutory declaration but they rejected it and now I'm awaiting a decision from the adjucator. The fine has gone down to £160 but I assumed it would've went back down to £80 due to being back at the representations stage? Not sure if to pay or wait, any advice?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: cp8759 on March 13, 2024, 11:50:05 pm
@mr-jp any updates on this?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: Incandescent on February 22, 2024, 07:32:05 pm
Free at your local county court, but appointment usually needed, or around £8-10 at a solicitor, although the recent inflation may have upped this a bit. so ask around.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on February 22, 2024, 12:43:57 pm
Hey guys I am trying to fill out the PE3 SD form & noticed it says this "You must then have the form sworn before a Commissioner for Oaths (e.g. a Solicitor), a Justice of the Peace (at any Magistrates Court) or an officer of your local county court before sending the declaration to the Traffic Enforcement Centre at the above address. You may have to pay a fee."

How do I get this done exactly?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on January 20, 2024, 12:47:10 pm
If you've not received their Letter of Rejection of Representations, you should ignore the CC and wait for the Order for Recovery. The council will apply to TEC so they can issue this, after the time for payment of the CC expires. You can then submit a Statutory Declaration to the Traffic Enforcement Centre that you didn't receive the letter of rejection. The process will then be reverted to the representations stage.

So when the CC payment period expires, it is time to get pro-active, because you have already missed one of their documents in the post, so must make sure you know they are at the OfR stage. You could miss getting the OfR so you need to phone TEC about once a week to enquire whether the PCN has been registered.  ONce it has, you don't actually need the OfR document, you can download the SD form from TEC.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms

Thanks so much! Will follow your steps and make sure I submit the SD form when the time comes.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: H C Andersen on January 11, 2024, 10:15:01 pm

I've noticed it says that they rejected my appeal on 05/12/23

That'll do nicely.

Procedurally you could therefore submit a witness statement in due form once issued by the council, this would cancel the CC and require them to refer the matter to the adjudicator.

Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: Incandescent on January 11, 2024, 09:40:18 pm
If you've not received their Letter of Rejection of Representations, you should ignore the CC and wait for the Order for Recovery. The council will apply to TEC so they can issue this, after the time for payment of the CC expires. You can then submit a Statutory Declaration to the Traffic Enforcement Centre that you didn't receive the letter of rejection. The process will then be reverted to the representations stage.

So when the CC payment period expires, it is time to get pro-active, because you have already missed one of their documents in the post, so must make sure you know they are at the OfR stage. You could miss getting the OfR so you need to phone TEC about once a week to enquire whether the PCN has been registered.  ONce it has, you don't actually need the OfR document, you can download the SD form from TEC.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on January 11, 2024, 07:16:16 pm
Hi HC, the dates you said were more or less correct but I remember when I submitted my appeal via the tfl website it wasn't classed as a late submission. I have just gone back to their website & found all the dates in status history, which I will attach.

I've noticed it says that they rejected my appeal on 05/12/23 & that the discount period was reset but I didn't receive any letter about this. How do I respond to them about not receiving anything after my appeal?

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Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: H C Andersen on January 11, 2024, 06:30:08 pm

OP, the dates as far as we know/can guess:

PCN dated 27 Sept, deemed served 29th. Last day of 28-day period for making reps: 26 Oct.

But you requested the DVD which would have put the clock on hold.

'Will give them a call tomorrow for the DVD' posted Oct 17. Let's say process on hold Oct 18th. Clock stops at day 20 of 28.

'I have finally received the PCN' posted Nov. 7th. Let's say 7 Nov. Clock starts with 8 days remaining. Last day for reps now 15 Nov.

'I've sent off the appeal'. Posted Nov. 17th literally... deemed rec'd by TfL 21 Nov.

You have to fill in the blanks with accurate dates because at present it seems your reps were late and could be disregarded and you could have no choice but to pay £240.

Date DVD requested. If by phone were any undertakings given by TfL as regards process.
Date DVD rec'd. Again, any instructions regarding dates?
How did you submit your reps?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on January 11, 2024, 03:56:02 pm
Hey guys so after all this time I have just received a charge certificate saying that my penalty charge has increased & I now owe them £240. I did send off my appeal but never received a letter back with a response so I assumed that my case was still on hold. What can I do from this point?

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Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on November 17, 2023, 02:44:19 pm
I've looked at the video, here is a draft representation:

Dear Transport for London,

At the time of the alleged contravention, my vehicle was stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading goods, in accordance with section 15(3)(d) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974.

It follows that the alleged contravention did not occur, and the penalty charge should be cancelled.


Yours faithfully,

I doubt TfL will accept it, but you have a reasonable chance at the tribunal.

Thanks so much CP. I've used your template and sent off the appeal. Will update when I get a response
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: cp8759 on November 14, 2023, 12:30:25 am
I've looked at the video, here is a draft representation:

Dear Transport for London,

At the time of the alleged contravention, my vehicle was stopped for the purpose of loading or unloading goods, in accordance with section 15(3)(d) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974.

It follows that the alleged contravention did not occur, and the penalty charge should be cancelled.


Yours faithfully,

I doubt TfL will accept it, but you have a reasonable chance at the tribunal.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on November 10, 2023, 02:14:50 pm
Any more advice with this one guys?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on November 07, 2023, 01:10:09 pm
Call TFL and ask for the video, they will send a DVD in the post and put the penalty on hold while you wait.

One possible angle we haven't explored before is that under section 15(2)(c) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1974/24/section/15) "A local authority may prosecute in respect of any offence under the foregoing subsection which is committed in its area", every other reference to an authority is to a highway authority, which is defined as:

“highway authority” means the Secretary of State in respect of all trunk roads, Transport for London in respect of all GLA roads and a borough council or the Common Council, as the case may be, in respect of all streets in their area, whether or not maintainable at the public expense, which are not for the time being trunk roads or GLA roads;

The fact that different terms have been used indicates that the power to prosecute rests with the local authority, irrespective of who the highway authority happens to be. Unless decriminalisation changed this, the consequence would be that only the local authority can enforce, and TFL cannot.

Obviously this is a novel an untested argument, but food for thought.

Hey, just to update I have finally received the PCN video and have added it to the evidence folder. I was parked for around 3 minutes while passangers got in with their suitcases. Anything you can advise?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on October 17, 2023, 11:14:59 pm
Call TFL and ask for the video, they will send a DVD in the post and put the penalty on hold while you wait.

One possible angle we haven't explored before is that under section 15(2)(c) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1974/24/section/15) "A local authority may prosecute in respect of any offence under the foregoing subsection which is committed in its area", every other reference to an authority is to a highway authority, which is defined as:

“highway authority” means the Secretary of State in respect of all trunk roads, Transport for London in respect of all GLA roads and a borough council or the Common Council, as the case may be, in respect of all streets in their area, whether or not maintainable at the public expense, which are not for the time being trunk roads or GLA roads;

The fact that different terms have been used indicates that the power to prosecute rests with the local authority, irrespective of who the highway authority happens to be. Unless decriminalisation changed this, the consequence would be that only the local authority can enforce, and TFL cannot.

Obviously this is a novel an untested argument, but food for thought.

Thanks CP! That's interesting and I hope that's the case. Not the first time TFL have tried to give me a PCN when they weren't supposed to. Will give them a call tomorrow for the dvd
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: cp8759 on October 17, 2023, 10:35:15 pm
Call TFL and ask for the video, they will send a DVD in the post and put the penalty on hold while you wait.

One possible angle we haven't explored before is that under section 15(2)(c) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1974/24/section/15) "A local authority may prosecute in respect of any offence under the foregoing subsection which is committed in its area", every other reference to an authority is to a highway authority, which is defined as:

“highway authority” means the Secretary of State in respect of all trunk roads, Transport for London in respect of all GLA roads and a borough council or the Common Council, as the case may be, in respect of all streets in their area, whether or not maintainable at the public expense, which are not for the time being trunk roads or GLA roads;

The fact that different terms have been used indicates that the power to prosecute rests with the local authority, irrespective of who the highway authority happens to be. Unless decriminalisation changed this, the consequence would be that only the local authority can enforce, and TFL cannot.

Obviously this is a novel an untested argument, but food for thought.
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on October 17, 2023, 12:46:03 pm
Any help with this one guys?
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on October 16, 2023, 02:45:39 pm
Apologies I think I got my folders mixed up as I have 2 PCNs ongoing. The folder link should be correct now & all evidence is there I believe
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: Pastmybest on October 16, 2023, 01:28:23 pm
The PCN is for 52M failing to abide by a traffic sign the video shows that to be correct but the PCN has the date for making reps wrong date of notice not service so that wins often at tribunal
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: Pastmybest on October 16, 2023, 01:25:48 pm
The PCN is for 52M failing to abide by a traffic sign the video shows that to be correct
Title: Re: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: H C Andersen on October 16, 2023, 01:20:35 pm
Look at your google drive folder pl and align the evidence with this thread!
Title: TFL PCN Code 62 - Parked with one or more wheels on a footpath Opposite 58-64 Edgware Road W2
Post by: mr-jp on October 16, 2023, 12:13:14 pm
Hi there guys,

I received this pcn recently and would like to know the correct way to appeal it. The contravention is "62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway".

I am an uber driver and briefly stopped at this location to pick up 2 customers that had suitcases. Wasn't there very long and didn't even know cameras could pick you up here. I was not parked on the pavement but actually on a driveway which leads down towards a car park.

I have seen a few other members successfully appeal this location but for other circumstances. Would really appreciate any help

Here is a link to all the pictures of pcn and where I was parked.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14od7hCtolQB4Fd4OqYTrX7_aeo2ufq-G


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