Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: nadz on October 15, 2023, 09:02:21 pm

Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: cp8759 on November 01, 2023, 11:09:49 pm
As long as the address on the V5c is 100% accurate and up to date, you don't need to do anything, just wait. The notice to owner should turn up in the post in a few weeks, post it up on here when this happens.
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: nadz on November 01, 2023, 07:52:10 pm
Hello

I am the registered keeper and I do have the v5c
What would i need to do now to await the notice to owner?
Do i need to respond to this to inform them or do can i inform them i wish to continue taking this forward.
Naturally their response letter is disappointing

Thank you for your responses in advance

Kind regards
Nadz
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: cp8759 on October 31, 2023, 10:30:03 pm
What a nonsense rejection, I would definitely wait for the notice to owner.

Are you the registered keeper and do you have the v5c?
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: Incandescent on October 31, 2023, 12:13:46 am
As usual, (and, BTW,  all, repeat, all councils in London do this), they have sent you the usual Fob-Off letter. They do this knowing that most people then cough-up, not wanting to risk the full PCN penalty. As penalties in London are double the rest of the UK, you can understand why. For me, they have failed to consider your representations, but if you take the matter further, to the Notice to Owner stage, it is likely your reps will be considered more fully. The difficulty is that at the NtO stage, the discount option is lost.  However most London councils re-offer it at this stage to avoid having to prepare an evidence pack for an adjudication. This is because, for an appellant, if the discount is not re-offered, it is a complete no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals as the penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs.
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London - rejection
Post by: nadz on October 30, 2023, 09:41:42 pm
Hi
I received a reply with a rejection of the initial letter that was sent.
Please find it attached below.
Do they normally give an explanation for the rejection or is this the usual format of what is sent?
Thank you in advance for your replies.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: nadz on October 26, 2023, 12:15:02 am
Thank you cp8759 - I have sent this through as advised and taken a screenshot of the confirmation page - I will keep you updated as to the outcome.
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: cp8759 on October 20, 2023, 06:26:42 pm
Here you go:

Dear City of Westminster,

I challenge liability for PCN WE52267503 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. There are no yellow lines or kerb blips at the location to alert me to the presence of a loading restriction, and while there is an upright sign indicating a loading restriction, such a combination of lines and signed is not a permitted combination under the Traffic Signs Regulations 2016.

It might be that the council intents to introduce a loading prohibition in the near future and the road markings have not yet been installed, or it might be that the loading restriction has been removed and the council has forgotten to remove the upright sign.

Whatever the case may be, the combination of signs and lines at this location is unlawful and ambiguous, as a result of which the alleged contravention did not occur.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and get a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: Incandescent on October 18, 2023, 11:58:43 pm
Yes, I seem to have got this a bit wrong.  With a parking ban at certain times, the bay needs something to indicate that, the sign is not sufficient on its own. Worth a punt at adjudication, I'd say, especially if CP8759 is on the case !
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: nadz on October 18, 2023, 11:09:17 pm
Thank you for your responses

Initially, I was unsure about when parking here on the "yellow line" was allowed especially as there was no yellow line and the bays a bit further up had the yellow line. It was also outside of the "loading" hours and I was not loading.

Please find the parking ticket in full

Thank you again in advance for your advice.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: cp8759 on October 17, 2023, 12:30:13 am
Well, the layout of the road is obviously incorrect and not compliant with the Traffic Signs Regulations 2016: there are no yellow lines or kerb blips by the side of the road, and this combination of road markings and signs is not authorised.

Please post both sides of the PCN in full, with no redactions.
Title: Re: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: Incandescent on October 16, 2023, 12:25:23 am
This is the parking bay sign for the bay where you parked.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/b26kJiLhPjwSJWkF6
If you were parked there within the times that both parking and/or loading is barred, then the PCN is correct. What didn't you understand about the sign ?
The yellow sign at the top gives times when parking is barred. However, because loading is an exemption to that sign, the council have also decided to bar loading during the same days and hours. So the next sign bars loading for the same days and hours as the yellow sign. Then outside of the days and hours of the those two signs, on the lowest sign, one can pay to park or load. As you can see, you cannot park or load at all on Sundays

Can you please post the full PCN and both sides, please, so we can check it for errors that may make it void.
Title: Queenway B3 - Code 02 - London
Post by: nadz on October 15, 2023, 09:02:21 pm
Dear All

Thank you for your advice and expertise in advance with the PCN WE52267503 (image 1) I received today (15/10/23) under the PCN Traffic Management Act 2004.

I was parked in this bay as per image 2 and was already unsure of parking here admittedly.  I had asked a shop opposite my car if they were aware of parking there and they suggested asking the traffic enforcement officer (WS7012) who was just outside their shop now. Unfortunately, I did not see either of them before.  I did and they explained the signage.  I was crossing back to move the car but their colleague (WS7024) was already printing the PCN as "I was away from my vehicle and the car was off".

I have had a read of previous threads regarding this particular location on Pepipoo - am I correct in my understanding that there is no yellow line within these bays, no kerb slips and no loading bay signs and could appeal on these grounds? Is there anything else I could add to appeal to cancel the PCN or did the contravention occur?

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle.

The bays a bit further up the road on the same side have loading markings markings (Image 3).
The sign is shown in image 4.
 
Please see the link of the google map street view for further clarification of the location if needed:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5133653,-0.187703,3a,75y,106.4h,78.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVbjkgJDi_OrsK3xpD10vHQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Kind Regards
Nadz

[attachment deleted by admin]