Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: zincy on October 12, 2023, 09:58:51 am

Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: cp8759 on December 11, 2023, 02:22:35 pm
Draft reps

Dear London Borough of Waltham Forest,

I am writing to make representations against penalty charge notice FR60585078).

I would like to bring to your attention the circumstances surrounding this PCN and kindly request a review of the penalty.

On the date in question, I was indeed parked on my own road; however, I was using a courtesy car provided to me while my personal vehicle was undergoing repairs in a garage. I followed the correct procedure and added this courtesy car to my resident permit via the Waltham Forest portal, ensuring I remained compliant with parking regulations in the area.

I refer you to the courtesy car hire agreement at LINK

Unfortunately, the oversight occurred when I received my personal car back from the garage. Due to the relief of having my own vehicle back and the subsequent rush to return to my daily routine, I regrettably forgot to update my resident permit to remove the courtesy car from it. It was an honest mistake, and I deeply regret any inconvenience it may have caused.

I understand the importance of enforcing parking regulations and appreciate the need for fair and just application. In this instance, I genuinely believed I was in compliance with the rules by adding the courtesy car to my permit during its use. However, my failure to promptly remove it once I regained access to my personal vehicle resulted in this PCN.

I have now rectified the situation by updating my resident permit and removing the courtesy car, ensuring such a mistake will not happen again in the future. I am grateful for your understanding and ask for your understanding in this matter.

While I am trust the above will suffice to justify cancellation of the penalty charge on this occasion, I should also point out that the sign for the bay would support code 16 "Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required", there is no evidence the bay in question is signposted as a residents' or shared use bay so a code 12 contravention did not occur.

Yours faithfully,


I'll email you the link, get your friend to make representations online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on December 07, 2023, 02:35:50 pm
We can ask the VW garage who issued the courtesy car for a letter - if that helps?
Is that a must in order to progress the appeal?
It would massively improve your chances.

Hey CP - as requested, please find attached.

I would be grateful if you could confirm the next steps.

Thanks
Zincy

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on December 04, 2023, 11:09:49 am
We can ask the VW garage who issued the courtesy car for a letter - if that helps?
Is that a must in order to progress the appeal?
It would massively improve your chances.

Thanks CP - my friend is aiming to get hold of this today and I will get it uploaded or confirm I have it.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: cp8759 on December 02, 2023, 05:47:32 pm
We can ask the VW garage who issued the courtesy car for a letter - if that helps?
Is that a must in order to progress the appeal?
It would massively improve your chances.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on November 30, 2023, 11:31:30 am
Do you have any paperwork to show that it was a courtesy car?

Hey CP,

We can ask the VW garage who issued the courtesy car for a letter - if that helps?
Is that a must in order to progress the appeal?

Thanks
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: cp8759 on November 29, 2023, 09:15:22 pm
Do you have any paperwork to show that it was a courtesy car?
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on November 29, 2023, 02:01:37 am
Hey guys, any advice on this please?
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: John U.K. on November 17, 2023, 10:51:46 am
To save wading through the ads.
(https://i.ibb.co/VSq2fTL/Notice-to-Owner.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wy2gmfH)
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on November 17, 2023, 10:23:18 am
Hey CP,

Hope you are well.

As per your kind advice earlier, NTO now received and attached for your review.

I look forward to your further comments.

https://ibb.co/Wy2gmfH
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: cp8759 on October 28, 2023, 11:33:01 pm
Shall I wait for the notice to owner? Do I have a good chance at tribunal stage?
Yes, you might as well wait. If the notice to owner is challenged within 14 days, they normally reoffer the discount anyway, and if you get a formal notice of rejection we can weight up at that point if it's worth carrying on.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on October 24, 2023, 02:53:51 pm
Yes I've got the v5c, I am the registered keeper and all details are correct. 

Shall I wait for the notice to owner? Do I have a good chance at tribunal stage?
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: cp8759 on October 23, 2023, 09:46:45 pm
You're not at the tribunal stage yet, first you have to wait for the notice to owner and make representations against that. Only if those representations are rejected there is an option to appeal to the tribunal.

For now, are you the registered keeper and do you have the V5C? If yes, please check that the address is up to date.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on October 23, 2023, 01:15:15 pm
Hi All,


Please find attached response from the council.

As expected, they are not really accepting anything but that I pay them the PCN amount.

I would be grateful for any further advice - I am happy to appeal to the tribunal if I have good ground to do so?

Thanks in advance.

https://ibb.co/sy83pzS

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: cp8759 on October 14, 2023, 11:46:11 am
An additional argument that could be deployed at a later stage is that the sign is not for a residents' or shared use bay:

(https://i.imgur.com/C6A40b4.png)

Arguably the PCN should have been given for code 16 - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly
displaying a valid physical permit where required
.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: DancingDad on October 13, 2023, 11:37:40 am
Thanks for clarifying my confusion.... it's my age.

Other compelling reasons.... not certain how the website will phrase it.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on October 13, 2023, 11:25:50 am
That reads okay to me.

Please correct me if I am wrong but reading this yesterday I had the impression that the PCN was the courtesy car not yours???
Probably my memory failing but correct car will be critical.

It was my friend's own car that got the ticket (after he forgetfully swapped his permit to the courtesy car but did not re-register his normal car once it came back from the garage.

Thanks for reading it over.

Looks OK. If you've lived there a long time you could put something in about this. Remember this is only an informal challenge, so you may well get the usual Fob-Off letter. We need to see this so that we can assess it for "consideration". Failure to consider is a procedural impropriety.




Thanks, I will insert something about the length of time my friend has lived there.
From memory, you have to select a option on the grounds of the informal appeal (I could be wrong here) i.e. the contravention did not occur? - Which option should be selected please?
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: Incandescent on October 13, 2023, 10:05:54 am
That reads okay to me.

Please correct me if I am wrong but reading this yesterday I had the impression that the PCN was the courtesy car not yours???
Probably my memory failing but correct car will be critical.
OP drove back from garage in his own car and parked-up by his home or nearby, but permit was still showing the courtesy car is what I understand.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: DancingDad on October 13, 2023, 10:01:53 am
That reads okay to me.

Please correct me if I am wrong but reading this yesterday I had the impression that the PCN was the courtesy car not yours???
Probably my memory failing but correct car will be critical.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: Incandescent on October 13, 2023, 09:43:51 am
Looks OK. If you've lived there a long time you could put something in about this. Remember this is only an informal challenge, so you may well get the usual Fob-Off letter. We need to see this so that we can assess it for "consideration". Failure to consider is a procedural impropriety.

Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on October 13, 2023, 08:54:02 am
Obviously it is your error that gave rise to the PCN, but any half-decent council should cancel it on receipt of your representations. However, London councils are rather too venal so you may struggle.

Thanks, I had to google what Venal meant

"showing or motivated by susceptibility to bribery; corrupt"

Incandescent - and what would a half-decent representation look like? any help here would be great.
PS I have prepared a draft for review...

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to appeal the Parking Penalty Charge Notice (PCN FR60585078) I received for an alleged parking violation on my own road.

I would like to bring to your attention the circumstances surrounding this PCN and kindly request a review of the penalty:

On the date in question, I was indeed parked on my own road; however, I was using a courtesy car provided to me while my personal vehicle was undergoing repairs in a garage. I followed the correct procedure and added this courtesy car to my resident permit via the Waltham Forest portal, ensuring I remained compliant with parking regulations in the area.

Unfortunately, the oversight occurred when I received my personal car back from the garage. Due to the relief of having my own vehicle back and the subsequent rush to return to my daily routine, I regrettably forgot to update my resident permit to remove the courtesy car from it. It was an honest mistake, and I deeply regret any inconvenience it may have caused.

I understand the importance of enforcing parking regulations and appreciate the need for fair and just application. In this instance, I genuinely believed I was in compliance with the rules by adding the courtesy car to my permit during its use. However, my failure to promptly remove it once I regained access to my personal vehicle resulted in this PCN.


I have now rectified the situation by updating my resident permit and removing the courtesy car, ensuring such a mistake will not happen again in the future. I am grateful for your understanding and ask for your compassion in this matter.


Thank you for your attention to this matter, and I hope for a favorable resolution to this appeal. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on October 13, 2023, 08:49:33 am
(https://i.ibb.co/8rPhW6s/Whats-App-Image-2023-10-12-at-09-33-34.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tqYd78K)

Please may we see the back of the PCN?

Sure John,

See attached
https://ibb.co/yq1gFQ3
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: Incandescent on October 12, 2023, 12:07:29 pm
Obviously it is your error that gave rise to the PCN, but any half-decent council should cancel it on receipt of your representations. However, London councils are rather too venal so you may struggle.
Title: Re: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: John U.K. on October 12, 2023, 11:02:25 am
(https://i.ibb.co/8rPhW6s/Whats-App-Image-2023-10-12-at-09-33-34.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tqYd78K)

Please may we see the back of the PCN?
Title: PCN FR60585078 - Sunnyside Road - Waltham Forest
Post by: zincy on October 12, 2023, 09:58:51 am
Hi All,

A friend writes...

I got a PCN on my own road.
Unfortunately I had a courtesy car whilst my car was in the garage.
I added this courtesy car via the waltham forest portal to my resident permin.
Unfortunately, when i got my actual car back from the garage, I forgot to add it back online and so got the ticket attached.

Do I have any grounds of appeal?

PCN is here: https://ibb.co/tqYd78K
Location of PCN is here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5675674,-0.0209951,3a,75y,150.66h,78.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIJHdXG8NxJi7041LFDMs6Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Thanks