Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: beans1234 on June 23, 2025, 11:12:47 pm

Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on October 09, 2025, 05:03:05 pm
Great thanks, you and b789 have been a big help.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: DWMB2 on October 09, 2025, 04:59:52 pm
The question I have now is, since I assume I'll still get letters from the debt collectors, should I continue to ignore them or tell them that the owner of the car park has cancelled the ticket?
If the charge has been cancelled, you should hear no more from either Smart or their debt collecting lap dogs (except to confirm that the charge is cancelled, although they might not waste their time telling you that). If you do, let us know and we can advise you on how to deal with them.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on October 09, 2025, 04:46:45 pm
So just a quick update on this, I've had a few letters from debt collectors now and was ignoring them but since something has come up within my family I decided to contact Spar, who have just sent me this email

Quote
Parking Ticket Cancellation Confirmation.

I have received confirmation from Luke, the store manager, that the parking ticket has now been cancelled.

Please feel free to contact us if you encounter any further issues regarding the parking ticket.

Regards

The question I have now is, since I assume I'll still get letters from the debt collectors, should I continue to ignore them or tell them that the owner of the car park has cancelled the ticket?
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: DWMB2 on July 10, 2025, 06:01:48 pm
Try again tomorrow or Monday, there's often a brief delay between the parking operator generating a code, and that code working on the IAS portal.

Otherwise, yes ignore everything from them or debt collectors until you receive a Letter of Claim from their solicitors. They have up to 6 years from the date of the parking event to sue you, but rarely take that long. It's usually more like 9-18 months.

If you move house before the matter is concluded, make sure to inform Smart of your new address.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on July 10, 2025, 05:41:07 pm
Just tried to appeal to IAS but got the following message

Quote
Your PCN or Registration Number has not been recognised. Please try again.

Please Note: If you have had your appeal rejected and you have been told to enter your appeal on this site but keep receiving this message; please contact the operator that issued the charge for assistance.

The IAS will not have the information to assist you at this stage.

Operator Contact Details can be found at www.theipc.info/aos-members.

I was happy to waste their time appealing but now this has happened I can't be bothered, even that website they put at the end doesn't work.

So I'll just ignore everything they send me now is it?
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on July 10, 2025, 01:32:40 pm
Yes I knew it was getting rejected, I was just posting an update. The fact they offered to reduce it to only £20 tells me they're just looking to get what they can out of me. I will post that to IAS now though, thanks.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: b789 on July 10, 2025, 01:26:23 pm
You were already told that any initial appeal and subsequent IAS appeal will not be successful. But you go through the motions.

Appeal to the IAS with the following:

Generic IAS appeal

Quote
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability for this parking charge and appeal in full.

The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must establish that a contravention occurred, that a valid contract was formed between the operator and the driver, and that it has lawful authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) in its own name. I therefore require the operator to provide the following:

1. Strict proof of clear, prominent, and adequate signage that was in place on the date in question, at the exact location of the alleged contravention. This must include a detailed site plan showing the placement of each sign and legible images of the signs in situ. The operator must demonstrate that signage was visible, legible, and compliant with the IPC Code of Practice that was valid at the time of the alleged contravention, including requirements relating to font size, positioning, and the communication of key terms.

2. Strict proof of a valid, contemporaneous contract or lease flowing from the landowner that authorises the operator to manage parking, issue PCNs, and pursue legal action in its own name. I refer the operator and the IAS assessor to Section 14 of the PPSCoP (Relationship with Landowner), which clearly sets out mandatory minimum requirements that must be evidenced before any parking charge may be issued on controlled land.

In particular, Section 14.1(a)–(j) requires the operator to have in place written confirmation from the landowner which includes:

• the identity of the landowner,
• a boundary map of the land to be managed,
• applicable byelaws,
• the duration and scope of authority granted,
• detailed parking terms and conditions including any specific permissions or exemptions,
• the means of issuing PCNs,
• responsibility for obtaining planning and advertising consents,
• and the operator’s obligations and appeal procedure under the Code.

These requirements are not optional. They are a condition precedent to issuing a PCN and bringing any associated action. Accordingly, I put the operator to strict proof of compliance with the entirety of Section 14 of the PPSCoP. Any document that contains redactions must not obscure the above conditions. The document must also be dated and signed by identifiable persons, with evidence of their authority to act on behalf of the parties to the agreement. The operator must provide an agreement showing clear authorisation from the landowner for this specific site.

3. Strict proof that the enforcement mechanism (e.g. ANPR or manual patrol) is reliable, synchronised, maintained, and calibrated regularly. The operator must prove the vehicle was present for the full duration alleged and not simply momentarily on site, potentially within a permitted consideration or grace period as defined by the PPSCoP.

4. Strict proof that the Notice to Keeper complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), if the operator is attempting to rely on keeper liability. Any failure to comply with the mandatory wording or timelines in Schedule 4 of PoFA renders keeper liability unenforceable.

5. Strict proof that the NtK was posted in time for it to have been given within the relevant period. The PPSCoP section 8.1.2(d) Note 2 requires that the operator must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)

6. The IAS claims that its assessors are “qualified solicitors or barristers.” Yet there is no way to verify this. Decisions are unsigned, anonymised, and unpublished. There is no transparency, no register of assessors, and no way for a motorist to assess the legal credibility of the individual supposedly adjudicating their appeal. If the person reading this really is legally qualified, they will know that without strict proof of landowner authority (VCS v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186), no claim can succeed. They will also know that clear and prominent signage is a prerequisite for contract formation (ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67), and that keeper liability under PoFA is only available where strict statutory conditions are met.

If the assessor chooses to overlook these legal requirements and accept vague assertions or redacted documents from the operator, that will speak for itself—and lend further weight to the growing concern that this appeals service is neither independent nor genuinely legally qualified.

In short, I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on July 10, 2025, 01:15:17 pm
Just got an email saying my appeal was rejected.

(https://i.imgur.com/Eyniar2.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/TmCpO3L.jpeg)

So I guess my next move is to send what b789 gave me, but who am I sending that to? IAS?
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on June 25, 2025, 01:37:50 pm
OK got it, just wait and see what they do next. Thanks.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: DWMB2 on June 25, 2025, 01:35:11 pm
It won't 'work' either way in the sense that Smart don't accept appeals (they don't make any money from doing so). My point was more that seeking to put them to proof that the notice was delivered within 14 days might be made somewhat futile, by the fact that they can use the date they received your appeal as proof that it was received in time.

If you have already appealed, then their portal probably won't let you appeal again anyway, and the rest of b789's earlier post holds true: it'll be a case of waiting for them to escalate things.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on June 25, 2025, 01:27:58 pm
If the recipient of the notice appealed on day 13, he might struggle to run an argument that the claimant cannot prove the notice was delivered within 14 days.

If the presumption that a notice sent by post (PoFA itself doesn't specify first class post) can be rebutted, I would suggest it can be rebutted both ways (ie, if the sender can show that it was received sooner than that, by, for example, showing that the appellant appealed before the presumed delivery date and therefore must have received it sooner).

Sorry, I'm a little confused now. Should I stick to what b789 told me to reply with next or are you saying it wouldn't work because I've already sent an appeal off on the 23rd?
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: DWMB2 on June 24, 2025, 06:27:30 pm
If the recipient of the notice appealed on day 13, he might struggle to run an argument that the claimant cannot prove the notice was delivered within 14 days.

If the presumption that a notice sent by post (PoFA itself doesn't specify first class post) can be rebutted, I would suggest it can be rebutted both ways (ie, if the sender can show that it was received sooner than that, by, for example, showing that the appellant appealed before the presumed delivery date and therefore must have received it sooner).
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: b789 on June 24, 2025, 05:57:03 pm
It Doen't matter when you actually received it. It matters when it was issued, irrespective of the actual time it took. Just use what we have suggested.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on June 24, 2025, 03:20:15 pm
Nah, it's PoFA compliant as far as I can see. You can mess with them by appealing and then when they reject that, appeal to the IAS, which will also be rejected but costs them money unless they concede.

The way this will be won is after they issue a claim which is easily defended and has a very high probability of it being struck out or discontinued just before the trial fee of £27 has to be paid by them.

For now, just appeal as the Keeper with the following:

Quote
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your Parking Charge Notice. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.

Your Notice to Keeper was issued 10 days after the alleged contravention. However, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, a notice must be given—that is, delivered—within 14 days of the event in order to hold the keeper liable.

Delivery is only presumed if the notice was posted by first-class mail at least two working days before the expiry of the relevant period. The British Parking Association’s Code of Practice (Note 2, Section 8.1.2(e)) explicitly states that operators must retain proof of the actual date of posting, not simply the date of generation or handover to a mail consolidator. This is critical, because most bulk mailing services—such as those used by Smart Parking—typically operate on economy 3–4 day delivery schedules, which fall outside the timescale necessary for presumed delivery under PoFA.

Accordingly, without affirmative evidence that the NtK was actually posted via first-class mail in time to ensure delivery within the 14-day period, you cannot rely on PoFA to establish keeper liability.

There will be no admission as to the identity of the driver, and no lawful inference may be drawn in this regard. I am also lodging a formal complaint with your client about your aggressive and misleading enforcement conduct.

I suggest that you cancel this charge now to avoid further time-wasting or the expense to you of an IAS appeal.

Wow thanks for that, that's incredibly helpful. The problem is like an idiot I have already sent that appeal in straight after receiving the letter (23/06) so they know I got it within the time frame.

I read somewhere that the time doesn't start until I leave the car anyway and not when the images of me entering the car park were taken, so my friends mother taking longer to get in and out of the car would likely have taken more than that minute, although I guess that 10 minute grace period is to cover for things like that.

I'll still send what you wrote when I hear off them though so thank you.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: DWMB2 on June 24, 2025, 02:40:31 pm
Nah, it's PoFA compliant as far as I can see.
Likewise - Smart may finally be getting their house in order as far as PoFA compliance is concerned, one for us to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: b789 on June 24, 2025, 02:25:33 pm
Nah, it's PoFA compliant as far as I can see. You can mess with them by appealing and then when they reject that, appeal to the IAS, which will also be rejected but costs them money unless they concede.

The way this will be won is after they issue a claim which is easily defended and has a very high probability of it being struck out or discontinued just before the trial fee of £27 has to be paid by them.

For now, just appeal as the Keeper with the following:

Quote
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your Parking Charge Notice. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.

Your Notice to Keeper was issued 10 days after the alleged contravention. However, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, a notice must be given—that is, delivered—within 14 days of the event in order to hold the keeper liable.

Delivery is only presumed if the notice was posted by first-class mail at least two working days before the expiry of the relevant period. The British Parking Association’s Code of Practice (Note 2, Section 8.1.2(e)) explicitly states that operators must retain proof of the actual date of posting, not simply the date of generation or handover to a mail consolidator. This is critical, because most bulk mailing services—such as those used by Smart Parking—typically operate on economy 3–4 day delivery schedules, which fall outside the timescale necessary for presumed delivery under PoFA.

Accordingly, without affirmative evidence that the NtK was actually posted via first-class mail in time to ensure delivery within the 14-day period, you cannot rely on PoFA to establish keeper liability.

There will be no admission as to the identity of the driver, and no lawful inference may be drawn in this regard. I am also lodging a formal complaint with your client about your aggressive and misleading enforcement conduct.

I suggest that you cancel this charge now to avoid further time-wasting or the expense to you of an IAS appeal.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on June 24, 2025, 01:39:05 pm
Thanks for the help, here's the back of the letter

(https://i.imgur.com/Se3Skzc.jpeg)
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: b789 on June 24, 2025, 01:28:41 pm
Absolutely not!!!! No one pays (not so) Smart Parking unless they are a fool and their money or low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree. Show us the whole of the NtK, both sides, just to check for other possible PoFA failures. Even if there aren't others, this would eventually lead to a claim and is easily defended with the odds of it ever going all the way to a hearing at less than 1%.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on June 24, 2025, 11:17:55 am
That's not good for me then. Also forgot to mention that I did send an appeal straight after receiving the letter and I've likely admitted to being the driver in it.

-----Your Message-----
I had a woman with me on crutches as you will be able to see if you have images of us entering/exiting the car, she was unable to walk at a regular pace due to this so we ended up taking a little longer than we would had she not been on crutches.

100% the appeal is getting rejected after reading some of the other posts here, should I just pay it?
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: b789 on June 24, 2025, 10:22:10 am
That's the first (not so) Smart Parking NtK that I think I've ever seen that has been given within the relevant period as far as PoFA is concerned.
Title: Re: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: DWMB2 on June 23, 2025, 11:34:57 pm
Welcome to FTLA.

To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
Title: Smart Parking Ltd PCN - Overstayed - Spar Cardiff
Post by: beans1234 on June 23, 2025, 11:12:47 pm
The allowed time at the car park was 30 minutes, according to the pictures they sent in the letter I was there a total of 41 minutes. My friends mother was also in the car and she was on crutches at the time, I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not. This happened 10/06/25 and I received the letter today 23/06/25. The fine is £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days. Also parking was free for the 30 minutes.

(https://i.imgur.com/7R736w3.jpeg)