Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: rsrk.rr@gmail.com on June 21, 2025, 10:26:34 am
-
Many thanks for the advice.
I had submitted the appeal and my hearing is going to be in September on teams.
Will gather all evidence before that.
But sounsd like I dont have much to say in that
-
Please look at your last post and review your dates, you're getting March and May mixed up.
PCN issued 4 March, you submitted informal reps on 19th March to which they responded on 27 March offering you the opportunity to pay the discount or wait for a Notice to Owner against which you could make formal reps.
In any event, what you submitted on 17 MAY was considered as those formal reps because the NTO was issued on ***** and therefore deemed served before your formal reps were submitted. These were rejected in their Notice of Rejection dated 27 MAY.
You had your options to pay or wait for the NTO. You chose the latter and made formal reps. The NOR sets out your appeal options.
You have had your statutory bites at the cherry.
You received their letters dated 27 March and 27 May but according to you not the NTO.
So, we need to check that your name and address on these letters are exactly the same as your registered keeper details held by DVLA. Are they?
In any event, your only options are to pay or appeal to the adjudicator, NOT the council, no later than 25 June and in accordance with the instructions in the NOR.
Just register your appeal by 25th June (I suggest the grounds of 'procedural impropriety' and 'penalty exceeded....circumstances of case').
The CEO had every right to issue and serve the PCN. Your parking rights ended at 10.56 after which you were in contravention. Your car was observed by the CEO in contravention and they primed themselves to be ready to issue the PCN at exactly 11.07 as allowed under the regs. Your beef is NOT with the CEO(they cannot cancel a PCN once issued), it's with the authority and your appeal is NOT against the PCN being issued, it's against the authority's refusal to cancel despite you putting your case to them and rejecting your formal reps.
-
I think you didn't challenge the windscreen PCN but just made formal reps against the notice to owner?
You must either pay or register a tribunal appeal very soon. As there is no discount on offer, you may as well try the tribunal opt for a personal hearing online or by phone.
There is no sign of you in the CEO's pics. As I said you could well get a recommendation to cancel as Camden's rejection is callous but the tribunal can't allow the appeal on mitigation alone and it seems the CEO did wait for the 10 min grace to elapse.
(https://i.imgur.com/stwkjYf.png)
-
Thank you Mr Anderson.
I now found the acknowledgement email from Camden on 17th May and you can see the response I submitted below. This I believe is the formal representation as I did not send any other communication to them. I have removed my name and contact details. I had explained clearly that in the same month I had parked five times through the same app and left on time on all those occasions except for this one. Then I got the reply on 27th March from a process officer who said he is enforcing the penalty. But there was no option in the letter to make any representation. It says that they will send a notice to owner but I only got this notice of rejection. I was hoping to appeal but no option was given as you can see from the pdf I posted above. Should I mention it in the appeal that I should have recieved a notice to owner before issuing notice of rejection? Many thanks and I really appreciate your guidance even in the middle of a sunny weekend
No_Reply_Camden@camden.gov.uk
Sat, May 17, 4:42 PM
to me
*DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL.This is an automated email and the email address is not monitored*
If you have recently received a Penalty Charge Notice, Enforcement Notice, or Notice to Owner in the post, the ticket has been placed on hold. This means that the PCN should not progress to the next stage of enforcement until we have responded to your challenge.
If you would like any further details regarding parking or parking enforcement in Camden please visit Camden.gov.uk/parking/
Please find below the information you submitted online.
Submission Date/Time: 17/05/2025 16:42:21
PCN Reference: CU69895807
Submission Reference: 40848025
Title: Dr
Forename:
Surname:
Organisation:
House Number:
Address 1:
Address 2:
Address 3:
Address 4:
Postcode:
Tel. No:
Email:
Notes:
Your Notes: I was diagnosed to have a painful condition of left hip called transient osteoporosis of hip in February 2025 (clinic letter attached and MRI report attahced). I was advised to use crutches until April. On the day of alleged contravention I was returning from o2 mall hoping I will reach the car park by 10:50. I was fully aware that the parking will expire by around 10 55. However I fell on the way as I tripped while walking with my crutch near finchley and frognal station. I was in pain and it took a while for me to recover and start walking again. I tried to extend the parking through the app but there was a limit of two hours and it was not letting me extend beyond that time. I managed to limp with the pain and when I reached the car it was just ten minutes beyond the expiry time and at that time the parking personnell was issuing the ticket. I explained to him what happenned and the reason why I got late. He said there is an option to use other parking codes and extend the parking if I was getting late. I was not aware of that option but certainly will keep in mind for the future. But considering that I am already suffering from this hip condition to which I am getting accustomed to and the fact that I reached the car just at 10 minutes of expiry (although the time of 11 07 mentioned was because the personnel was chatting with me for around two minutes before issuing the ticket) I should not be given a ticket. The personnel agreed with the fact that he should not have issued the ticket but still for some reason went on to issue the ticket but he said he will write comments on the fact that I had mitigating circumstance in the form of fall and painful condition of hip. I was also not aware of the fact that parking session can be extended by using adjacent codes as advised by the personnell. Through my Ringo app one can see that I had made 5 parking sessions in March and except for this one where I had mitigating circumstance, I left on time on all other sessions
Uploaded Evidence:
MRI report .pdf
Ortho letter 3rd Feb .pdf
-
OP, it is very difficult to advise because you have not posted your informal and formal representations. If you don't have them then you'll have to wait until you receive a copy of the council's evidence, normally 7 days prior to the hearing, which would certainly include the latter. Alternatively, once you have registered your appeal - no later than 25 June - you could ask the council for copies failing which submit a Subject Access Request to get copies of these and the *PCN and the NTO.
There is no further correspondence with the council regarding their decision, the adjudicator is now the final arbiter.
-
So the image says 11 08 and pcn says 11 07. 11 0 6 was end of ten minutes grace and I was litherally there and could see the person issuing ticket on my car. I was at the end of the road and the car was more in the middle of the street so by the time I reached the PCN was already issued
-
No I did not make any formal reps and all I did was challenge the PCN thorugh the online portal.
I got a reply on 27th March saying that the parking officer is enforcing the notice in response to my challenge I made on 19th March.
The PDF is attached below
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
OP, your account is confusing.
Pl don't take umbrage, but for the moment I would ask that you focus on procedure and timings, not your condition.
PCN issued at 11.07, not 11.08 as in your post.
You posted: I typed the response on the challenge PCN form and attached the clinic letter mentioning the diagnosis of my painful hip condition. I also mentioned the fact that the CEO agreed to type comments on his system so that the adjudicator will be aware of this fact. But despite all this they sent this notice of rejection which is frustrating.
But the NOR is in response to formal reps against a Notice to Owner, not a 'challenge' against a PCN. We are missing a complete stage in the enforcement process.
So, what did you do? You had the opportunity to submit informal reps. Did you? If so, what were they and where's their response?
Where's the Notice to Owner against which you submitted formal reps? And those reps?
The NOR is dated 27 May therefore deemed served on 29th. The last day of the 28-day period for registering an appeal is 25 June. Register your appeal ASP, grounds 'penalty exceeded......' and 'procedural impropriety'. Atthis stage you rely upon your formal reps(wherever they may be!).
As for 'I managed to limp and get there by 11 06 and saw that somebody was issuing a ticket.'. Any evidence in support? A PCN could not be issued before 11.07.
-
Dear Stamfordman
Thank you for the response. The CEO showed lot of sympathy at the time but has not written any helpful note in the system. I had quite bad osteoporosis on MRI and my ortho consultant advised to avoid weight bearing and take it easy. When I fell I was really worried my main worry was if I fractured the hip. But I was able to gather strength and had to make sure that it is safe for me to walk further. I could not risk rushing to the parking with the fear of broken hip and I even tried to extend the time on app but maximum time was only 2 hours. The CEO who I met gave me a suggestion that in future I can extend by booking the other parking zone in the same street but I did not know this at that time.
It is just frustrating that that they are so rigid in their timing and despite the fact that I was there when the PCN was being issues they are not exempting on the mitigating circumstance ground
-
This is appalling - what have you got to do - die on the way back?
This should at least win a recommendation to cancel. The duty of fairness in the statutory guidance is paramount here.
Under general principles of public law, authorities have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest. Failure to act in accordance with the general principles of public law may lead to a claim for a decision to be judicially reviewed.
The 10 minute grace period was introduced for people returning to their vehicle only moments after the expiry of a period of permitted parking but in practice it is an extension during which it should be fair if something such as this prevents a momentary miss by what looks like seconds.
(https://i.imgur.com/aOWu9GN.png)
-
Thanks John UK
The suspension warning was not applicable for the day I parked.
The fine was mainly for overstaying.
THe details on the wesite are as follows. I do not have the original PCN.
CU69895807 £80.00 LD20CHF NTO/Enf. Notice Sent 04/03/2025 Alvanley Gardens
I typed the response on the challenge PCN form and attached the clinic letter mentioning the diagnosis of my painful hip condition. I also mentioned the fact that the CEO agreed to type comments on his system so that the adjudicator will be aware of this fact. But despite all this they sent this notice of rejection which is frustrating. I have parked there so many times without any breahc in timeline. But I was genuinely struggling that day and returned at the time when the CEO was actually issuing the PCN. Since it was already issued he said he could not undo it.
-
And what did the suspension sign state, can you remember?
-
I have edited your post to remove yr name & address.
For the convenience of others, here is the Notice of Rejection:
(https://i.imgur.com/tHxDtDB.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rCRvoRK.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qPNoUUZ.jpeg)
Do you have a copy of your reps? And please answer the rest of HCA's questions.
-
Hi
Thanks for your response
I have pasted the BBC code and alos the web link below (IMgur) and it has full notice of rejection including full right to appeal and notice to appeal. The expiry time was 10:56 and ten minute grate time ended at 11:06 and I was there at 11:07. I do not have the original PCN.
https://imgur.com/a/camden-council-notice-of-rejection-2PAN4rY#rCRvoRK
-
Pl post your parking rights receipt or confirm the P&D expiry time, the PCN, their response, the NTO and the full Notice of Rejection. And confirm that you are the Registered Keeper.
As you say, you don't have much time in which to register an appeal - latest date 25 June- but we need to get the full suite of notices, responses and circumstances in play first in order to formulate the best appeal.
-
Dear all
I need your help with parking contravention that happened with the vehicle on 4th March at 11 AM.
I paid thorugh the ring go app and the max stay was 2 hours that expired at 10:56.
The 10 minutes extra time was until 11:06 AM. I was walking back from nearby mall and I was limping back due to my newly diagnosed hip condition and unexpectedly fell on the way.
I realised I am going to be few minutes late as I had to rest up. It is a very painful condition and the fall made things worse.
I managed to limp and get there by 11 06 and saw that somebody was issuing a ticket.
I went to the person and told him the situation.
He saw me that I am limping with my crutches and still issued the ticket in front of me and as you can see the time on ticket was 11:08 (ten minute time expired at 11:06).
He told me he will write in the notes about my circumstance but the notice says the CEO has not written anything to suggest exemption.
I have proof of MRI report and clinic letter that advised me to use crutches.
I was already struggling with my clinical condition and I had parked there several times and never exceeded the time but this was unusual circumstance for me.
When i wrote to them explaining this I got notice of rejection on 27th may and I have 28 days to reply.
THe link of the notice is here
(https://i.imgur.com/tHxDtDB.jpeg?2)
the location link is this: https://maps.app.goo.gl/UK6pbYvMMLhP8dKR7
Have only few days left to challenge this. Please help.