Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: DREADED on June 19, 2025, 10:50:57 pm
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This is my draft representation, I appreciate any feedback:
To whom it may concern
I parked the vehicle at approximately 0600hrs on 12/4/25, fully within the marked bay and noted that there was a black pole without any sign attached as can clearly be seen in photos taken both by your enforcement officer and myself. I did look for additional signage but there was none visible, this may have been due to a large articulated lorry being parked at the opposite end of the bay (some 35 metres away, not 7 metres as you claimed in your rejection of my informal appeal) and entirely obscuring it.
I note that since the PCN was issued that the missing sign nearest where I parked has now been replaced. This is an admission by Islington Council that the signage present on the date and time when I parked was incomplete and therefore inadequate. The council have therefore failed in their duty under Regulation 18 (1)b. of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.
On this basis the penalty charge must be cancelled immediately.
Sincerely etc
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OP, it's clear that the NTO is not addressed to the same person as the rejection of informal reps.
Whereas anyone could challenge at the PCN stage, only the person on whom the NTO is served may make formal representations and only they are liable in law.
So, pl confirm who's who. If an unentitled person submits formal reps without clear authority(whether by virtue of being the addressee or with their written authorisation) then they'll be disregarded.
NTO dated 2 June. Last day for submission of reps is 1 July. Time is not on the addressee' side.
The car is owned by and registered to my partner. It's no problem for them to give written authorisation for me to make representations which we will do. Thank you for pointing it out.
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OP, it's clear that the NTO is not addressed to the same person as the rejection of informal reps.
Whereas anyone could challenge at the PCN stage, only the person on whom the NTO is served may make formal representations and only they are liable in law.
So, pl confirm who's who. If an unentitled person submits formal reps without clear authority(whether by virtue of being the addressee or with their written authorisation) then they'll be disregarded.
NTO dated 2 June. Last day for submission of reps is 1 July. Time is not on the addressee's side.
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The CPZ sign is irrelevant because it only give the single yellow line restrictions; parking bays still need a sign.
You should state that you parked and looked for a bay restrictions sign, but did no see one. You also note that since the PCN was served, the council have replaced the sign on the pole near your parked car, thus admitting that the signs for this bay were incomplete and therefore inadequate. The council have therefore failed in their duty under Regulation 18 (1)b. of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.
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I may be over there later so will check signage.
Just want to sincerely thank you for going to the effort of doing that for an internet stranger.
So the council admit by their action in replacing the sign, that signage is not adequate, and adequacy is Rule 18 of LATOR.
However, is the OP willing to risk the full PCN penalty ?
Yes, I'm willing to go all the way with this not least because I don't think the council have done their job properly. In further defence of myself and enhancing the argument for inadequate signage, may I ask how does a motorist even know they should look for signage? Because the entrance to the road informs that it's a controlled parking zone? You can see on google maps that whilst Blundell St has entrance signage, the entrance to Brandon Rd from Blundell St does not.
How about the entrance to Brandon Rd from York Way? Well, that does have signage but it's no longer accessible as has been made "No Entry" so therefore I couldn't enter from that direction. Furthermore, being partly industrial/commercial premises, Blundell St and Brandon Rd are used by HGV's for overnight parking. I would have parked on Brandon Rd at around 06:00am at which time the singular tiny sign was completely obstructed by a parked HGV.
Pictures attached.[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
Is anyone able to advise how I should word my formal appeal?
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So the council admit by their action in replacing the sign, that signage is not adequate, and adequacy is Rule 18 of LATOR.
However, is the OP willing to risk the full PCN penalty ?
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I stopped by there and found they have replaced the sign, so clearly it has a purpose. We have another case in Islington where there is a missing sign in a long bay which they haven't yet replaced as far as I know.
They say the sign that is there is 7 metres from where your car was. I paced 48 steps between the sign and the end of the bay where you were. They have put two disabled bays at the other end so the bay isn't as long as it was on Maps.
(https://i.ibb.co/k2Ymz6n6/PXL-20250621-114632805.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/m58V6FHm/PXL-20250621-114749633.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/WWcsZFxT/PXL-20250621-114730231.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/bjxtPK8k/PXL-20250621-114649090.jpg)
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I may be over there later so will check signage.
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GSV dated August 2022 shows two signs, one each end of the bay. There is no later view, unfortunately, but looking at the context of their photo of the sign they claim is approx 7.5 metres away shows it to be positioned about midway along the bay, here by the horizantal concrete beam in the wall : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BTAw2tNZTYDMx4JQ9
That beam is about 35-36 metres from the start of the bay, so they are bluffing their way with the 7.5 metres, frankly. However, whilst this is a long bay, the fact is you didn't walk down it looking for a sign, did you, so straight away you're at a disadvantage because the sign is there. YOu have a duty as a motorist parking in a marked bay to look for the sign. If this got to London Tribunals, the council would just state that there is a sign for the bay.
It looks as if the signs in place in 2022 have gone and been replaced by a single sign. However the pole that held the previously viewable sign in GSV is still there with no sign on it.
You say the sign is not visible in any of your photos, but if you zoom the one taken along the street from where your your car was parked, you can see the black pole and its sign by the horizantal concrete beam in the photo. Obviously the sign is seen edge on, because it faces out to the street.
Anyway, as Stamfordman says, you're at the Notice to Owner stage, so you might as well take them all the way, so they have to do some work for their money.
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Does anyone know what the minimum distance away the sign should be? Should that be the basis of my challenge?
I didn't walk down the length of the bay, surely 30+ metres away isn't a reasonable distance?
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It's a long bay and there is a sign at the other end - they say 7 metres from your car but it looks like longer on Maps:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Wvn5N571kNeRN58j7
I take it you didn't walk back along the bay when you parked.
As you are NTO stage no brainer to have another go.
(https://i.ibb.co/99gf1Q5H/Screenshot-2025-06-19-at-23-17-13.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/bgDPc2Bs/Screenshot-2025-06-19-at-23-16-56.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/XZwkxh89/Screenshot-2025-06-19-at-23-16-47.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/NggV4MpC/Screenshot-2025-06-19-at-23-16-40.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/8nXncytH/Screenshot-2025-06-19-at-23-16-33.png)
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I have not paid fine as I wish to challenge. I've now received "Notice to Owner". Islington claim that sign was within 7 metres is clearly nonsense, my vehicle is 3.5 metres long and there's no signage visible in at least 7 or 8 car lengths?
I can post more pages of Notice to Owner if required, have just included 1 of 6 for now.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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My informal appeal was rejected.[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
Notable that the enforcement officer must have taken a photo of restriction sign from elsewhere because it's absolutely not visible in any of the photos I took.
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[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3]
These are photos I took at time. Note that although black pole is near my car there's no sign attached to it as mentioned in my informal appeal.
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Can you please post a GSV link telling us exactly where you parked on the GSV view the link brings up.
Streetview link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/djb4QfzNhnfCXRde6
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Can you please post a GSV link telling us exactly where you parked on the GSV view the link brings up.
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I'm having trouble including images. No matter what I seem to do they won't display from either Imgur or postimages.org
Edit: Well..... that worked?
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(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Burl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fpostimg.cc%2FYGNYRZFG%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.postimg.cc%2FYGNYRZFG%2FPCNfront.jpg&hash=9c27583c7e932205c3949fcb7751a3041e8d9646)[/url][/img]
Front and back picture of PCN should hopefully show??
I immediately made informal appeal on Islington Council website as below:
PCN number: IZ34955329
Vehicle registration number: EN63GXC
I received a parking ticket on 12/4/25 at 08:45 but I believe the ticket was wrongly issued and I would like to submit an appeal for the following reasons:
• The alleged contravention did not occur due to Insufficient signage. I was unable to determine what the relevant parking restrictions were because there was no clear signage to explain what they were. Please see attached photographic evidence showing multiple angles, as proof of my appeal. It is notable that there is a single black post directly next to my car but it has no sign attached (possibly removed or damaged?). There are no additional signs or road markings to indicate any parking restrictions.
I will attempt to add in the photos I took at the time below: