Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: buscalls on October 11, 2023, 05:15:26 pm
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Thanks all for the feedback. It will be duly paid now :(
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The PCN states to claim the discount. You do not claim it it is a statutory right. This has won in the past but to be honest on its own probably not worth the risk
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As above, I think your only real hope is if the council increases the penalty prematurely. If that doesn't happen, the discount is probably best as I can't see anything here that warrants risking a further £35, as there's no point in throwing good money after bad.
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The problem you've got is that after you pass the signs on your GSV link, there are more signs to pass, so I think you'd struggle to convince an adjudicator.
Next sign after the roundabout: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6DmfqeTjfjEJptEN8
Then this one as you approach the actual restriction: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/so4AfPUucPJpn7fW7
and finally the actual restriction signs themselves: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KWKrWq73eG3ghu6A8
In your narrative you suggest you didn't know what these signs mean, but as a motorist your are supposed to know what all the signs mean, this would not win an appeal.
OK, I know when one is in a strange urban environment, it can get confusing, but that doesn't win adjudications, and with being unfamiliar with the roads, people tend to use their satnavs which are always out-of-date.
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I didn't see the signs. First time in Cambridge, heavy rain and trying to figure out where I was going. Below is the GSV on entering. Had I seen the sign would have still entered because would have assumed there is a separate bus lane which I wouldn't drive through. Have never come across such a road layout with a bus gate suddenly being presented on same road as car travel. I think referring to this as a bus lane is misleading because there isn't any bus lane separate to car lane. There is a T junction sign but for me a T junction is end of road which would be visibly clear. Approaching a the bus gate a more appropriate sign would have been red no entry with exception of bus, cycle etc as I have seen elsewhere. Such a red sign would have caught attention.
Given the level of fines they are generating from this camera it is clear the signage and layout isn't being presented fairly imo
https://maps.app.goo.gl/XQMN5R9kGrjRZScP6
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So the discount expires on midnight at the end of 29 October 2023. If the amount owed on the council website goes up to £70 before then, you have a winning appeal on the penalty exceeds ground (in which case you will need a timed / dated screenshot showing the amount due, I can do that for you).
That also gives us a bit of time to consider other issues so let's start with the basics: did you not see the signs, or did you not know what they mean?
For reference, here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN39XyK_HHc
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Using ibb means you can embed the images in a post using the BBCodes, which make it easier to access,
so
(https://i.ibb.co/Km9Tmhf/Whats-App-Image-2023-05-19-at-08-05-45-p1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9GqQGg1)
(https://i.ibb.co/LZYFZ39/Whats-App-Image-2023-05-19-at-08-16-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FDmrDF8)
(https://i.ibb.co/4mBnYjP/Whats-App-Image-2023-05-19-at-08-41-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VjXcQv2)
(https://i.ibb.co/bJh3Jn1/Whats-App-Image-2023-05-19-at-08-41-26.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vY5BY81)
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If the entire road is a bus lane then they should have it all in the same colour as the "Bus Gate" part from the beginning of the road as driver turns in. It's only when on the road the "Bus Gate" part with colour becomes apparent at which point driver doesn't have anywhere to go. Made less visible given the overcast rainy conditions when PCN was issued.
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Here's the original PCN
https://ibb.co/9GqQGg1
https://ibb.co/FDmrDF8
https://ibb.co/VjXcQv2
https://ibb.co/vY5BY81
Date of rejection is 5 October 2023
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Please post the original PCN and the notice of rejection, redact only your name and address and leave all other details visible.
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we need the date of the notice of rejection and the video please
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Thanks for feedback. What does GSV mean?
Google Street View
I must say, I don't think I've ever seen such a detailed consideration in a rejection before.
(https://i.ibb.co/93yZW7X/1697015757235-9aa9bec2-88c5-4db1-a791-d80bbf42ce7f-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R4Qjcqn)
(https://i.ibb.co/nCtwprb/1697015757235-9aa9bec2-88c5-4db1-a791-d80bbf42ce7f-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JQgcZnK)
(https://i.ibb.co/HKSJM46/1697015757235-9aa9bec2-88c5-4db1-a791-d80bbf42ce7f-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PrLSbjK)
(https://i.ibb.co/XxQXKHq/1697015757235-9aa9bec2-88c5-4db1-a791-d80bbf42ce7f-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9HDn1P7)
(https://i.ibb.co/RP0B9Rj/1697015757235-9aa9bec2-88c5-4db1-a791-d80bbf42ce7f-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pZzRxYh)
(https://i.ibb.co/J7mkr9y/1697015757235-9aa9bec2-88c5-4db1-a791-d80bbf42ce7f-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xjX5zNf)
You have rather zealously over-redacted - most importantly, what is the date of the rejection?
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Thanks for feedback. What does GSV mean?
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They say the signage is adequate, so the only way to resolve this is to take them to TPT. This means risking the full PCN penalty.
If GSV is up-to-date, please post a link.
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Reps:
Good afternoon,
The representations were submitted because of a confluence of factors. It was a heavily raining day. This was also the first time driving in Cambridge. Approaching from Parker Street there isn't driver facing signage on the left of the road to forewarn drivers that the right turn is restricted to buses and cyclists. There is only a mini roundabout sign. If there is a restriction turning right into Emmanuel Road then one would expect this to be displayed with the mini roundabout sign. The sign on the driver side to go straight from the mini roundabout was a bike and motor vehicle in a red circle which means no motor vehicles. Therefore instinctively I turned right.
Given this was the first visit to Cambridge and the poor visibility due to heavy rain along with poor signage as mentioned above I request that the PCN be rescinded. I believe there is a case for improvement of signage when approaching from Parker Street which I hope the council recognises and addresses accordingly soon. I note from a FOI submitted to the council that on one day alone (9 April 2021) there were 163 PCNs issued as a result of access to Emmanuel Road. This is an incredible number of PCNs and suggests the points raised in this representations regarding signage are valid.
Please note I will be left with no other option but to raise appeal for independent tribunal if these representations do not result in the PCN being rescinded.
Kind regards,
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Appealed a bus lane contravention on hope to get an out on technicality. Appeal was rejected as below. Wanted to see is members here can see any issues with the rejection. Please advise. Thanks
https://ibb.co/R4Qjcqn
https://ibb.co/JQgcZnK
https://ibb.co/PrLSbjK
https://ibb.co/9HDn1P7
https://ibb.co/pZzRxYh
https://ibb.co/xjX5zNf