Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: malt on June 18, 2025, 02:17:30 pm
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Ok great thanks so much for explaining Newjudge!
So will fill out 'I was not the driver' and then fill in that my dad was and wait for him to receive the next form in his own name then fill that in to confirm he was the driver.
Thank you!
Really helpful, much appreciated :)
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Thanks for all this extra info re the company, not sure I totally understand it.
In a nutshell it means this:
When a "request for driver's details" is addressed to an individual and no response (or an unsatisfactory one) is received, the individual to whom it was addressed will, on conviction for that offence see a fine and six points imposed on his licence.
Where the recipient of the request is not an individual but a "body corporate" (e.g. a company) it is not possible to impose points because a company does not have a driving licence or driving record.
However, there is a provision in the law which says if it can be proved that the failure to respond is due to the "consent, connivance or neglect" of an identifiable individual, that individual can also be punished.
So if, in your circumstances, you (as, say, the Company Secretary) decide to say "Sod it. We'll not bother responding to that. I know who was driving but I don't want to see him get an endorsement and points so we'll just take the financial hit against the Company" (and it can be proved) then you, as an individual, can also face prosecution.
It was then suggested that you, as that individual, could also see six points imposed. But as Southpaw points out, the law does not allow it. The only penalty is a financial one.
I don't know what the various sections are on the response form. In essence the Company needs to say "I was not driving" and then provide Dad's details as the person who was. He will then get his own request which he must complete to confirm he was driving.
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Thanks for all this extra info re the company, not sure I totally understand it.
Want to go the honest route and ok to say Dad was driving both times.
As nominating on behalf of the company, does this go under section 2 (with updating details in section 4?) or section 3 and name him in section 4?
Thank you :)
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In layman's terms, if the director(s) are to blame (whether through a positive act or through neglect) for the company getting fined for failing to identify the driver, they can also be penalised (which includes getting points on their licence)
If you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from posting bollox
Luckily I do know what I'm talking about and what I posted wasn't 'bollox' (https://www.safetycameras.gov.scot/news/company-director-receives-300-fine-and-6-penalty-points-after-failing-to-give-information-to-identify-a-driver/), but thanks for the tip.
Except Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 doesn’t provide for discretionary or obligatory endorsement of a licence for an offence under a 172(5), so how would points be imposed?
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In layman's terms, if the director(s) are to blame (whether through a positive act or through neglect) for the company getting fined for failing to identify the driver, they can also be penalised (which includes getting points on their licence)
If you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from posting bollox
Luckily I do know what I'm talking about and what I posted wasn't 'bollox' (https://www.safetycameras.gov.scot/news/company-director-receives-300-fine-and-6-penalty-points-after-failing-to-give-information-to-identify-a-driver/), but thanks for the tip.
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In layman's terms, if the director(s) are to blame (whether through a positive act or through neglect) for the company getting fined for failing to identify the driver, they can also be penalised (which includes getting points on their licence)
If you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from posting bollox
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(which includes getting points on their licence)
You sure about that?
s172(5) provides for such a person to be "punished accordingly". Does that not include points (or indeed a ban)?
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(which includes getting points on their licence)
You sure about that?
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A lot of irrelevant waffle.
OP, just name your father as driver online. Do it yourself and know it is done. He will then get his own request through the post. Read the instructions on that one and send back completed as directed.
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The good thing about a company owned car is that if the company itself cannot get points on a driving licence as the company can't drive. But failure to complete the s172 can lead to the company being fined up to £1000 and like the UK in the eurovision song contest, nul point. There is no licence to put points on. How many others are likely to have drive the company car?
OP - be aware that s172(5) of the Road Traffic Act says that:
Where a body corporate is guilty of an offence under this section and the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to be attributable to neglect on the part of, a director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or a person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of that offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly
In layman's terms, if the director(s) are to blame (whether through a positive act or through neglect) for the company getting fined for failing to identify the driver, they can also be penalised (which includes getting points on their licence)
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A limited company is in law a separate individual entity, the same as you and I are separate legal entities. If the s172 is addressed to "the company", the company by being an inanimate object cannot reply, so the company secretary or person authorised by the company has to answer. Whether the secretary, person authorised or the driver is immaterial. The company has to reply.
So if your father is the company secretary, then he has to reply. If he is the sole shareholder, then he must reply or authorise someone to do so. That person must name the driver, who will then get his own s172 to answer. Yes, it has to be done twice. The person replying to the initial s172 does not have to do or say anything else. The nominated driver has to do that when his personal s172 appears.
The good thing about a company owned car is that if the company itself cannot get points on a driving licence as the company can't drive. But failure to complete the s172 can lead to the company being fined up to £1000 and like the UK in the eurovision song contest, nul point. There is no licence to put points on. How many others are likely to have drive the company car?
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... I just noticed I can reply online, so does it make a difference online or filling in the form and posting?...
Depends.
Some constabularies allow you to nominate a third party online, but if you are nominating yourself as the driver, most constabularies apparently still require you to return the completed paper form with a signature.
So in the respect of the s172 request addressed to the company, it sounds like your father can complete it on behalf of the company naming himself online, but when he receives his own s172 addressed to himself, he needs to read the instructions very carefully to see if they will allow him to nominate himself online or whether he has to send the completed form back.
Online nominations will be quicker, but make sure you keep screenshots as proof of what he (you) tells them and also a screenshot of any confirmatory reply of the details given.
If he has to send back the completed and signed paper form, keep a copy and post the completed form first class from a post office counter and get free proof of posting.
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So I shouldn't include a letter asking for the courses, its something they will decide themselves?
No need. Either it qualifies or not.
I just noticed I can reply online, so does it make a difference online or filling in the form and posting?
Online is fine. That may not be an option for the driver.
Out of interest, what is architecting a timeout?
They have 6 months to commence a prosecution. Nowhere near it here...
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My question is, how to respond, do I just fill in the details on the back with my dads details
Yes - they will usually accept a 'late' nomination (as long as it doesn't appear something untoward is going on like trying to architect a 'timeout').
Assuming they accept the nomination (from the company) then another s172 request will be issued to the driver - this has to be completed (and signed) by the recipient (your Dad).
how can I try for him to do the educational course instead of points, would that be allowed for both? It says that may be an option available only until end of july on one / beginning august on other
At best they will only offer one. The other would likely see a fixed penalty offer (3 points £100).
I am acting for my dad as I deal with all his paperwork etc so am able to respond accordingly.
Note the above when he receives his own s172.
Thanks JustLoveCars for your helpful responses! Much appreciated and noted.
So I shouldn't include a letter asking for the courses, its something they will decide themselves?
I just noticed I can reply online, so does it make a difference online or filling in the form and posting?
Out of interest, what is architecting a timeout?
Thank you!
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Why?
Because it’s relevant to the advice.
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My question is, how to respond, do I just fill in the details on the back with my dads details
Yes - they will usually accept a 'late' nomination (as long as it doesn't appear something untoward is going on like trying to architect a 'timeout').
Assuming they accept the nomination (from the company) then another s172 request will be issued to the driver - this has to be completed (and signed) by the recipient (your Dad).
how can I try for him to do the educational course instead of points, would that be allowed for both? It says that may be an option available only until end of july on one / beginning august on other
At best they will only offer one. The other would likely see a fixed penalty offer (3 points £100).
I am acting for my dad as I deal with all his paperwork etc so am able to respond accordingly.
Note the above when he receives his own s172.
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Yes.
The registered keeper is a limited company (dads)
But the NIP says if the addressee is a limited company the form is for the attention of the company secretary or other responsible person.
Why?
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“The company”?
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Hi all
I was recommended this site so thank you in advance for your assistance, much appreciated and I've read the read this first section too, thank you.
My dad got 2 x NIP in the post one for doing 31 in a 20 and other for doing 29 in 20, both on the same road about 2 weeks apart. Thought it was a 30 didnt realise was a 20.
NIPs are dated about a month and a month and half ago.
Just found the letters as mum (with dementia) had hidden them and we did not see them (not on purpose, she doesnt realise what she does).
My question is, how to respond, do I just fill in the details on the back with my dads details, how can I try for him to do the educational course instead of points, would that be allowed for both? It says that may be an option available only until end of july on one / beginning august on other
The car is registered to the company, but it was my dad driving, so does that make any difference how to fill it in?
Thanks so much for any advice, much appreciated.
I am acting for my dad as I deal with all his paperwork etc so am able to respond accordingly.