Free Traffic Legal Advice
General discussion => The Flame Pit => Topic started by: BuzzingBee on October 10, 2023, 10:24:26 pm
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Excuse my ignorance - I rarely venture into the 'decriminalised' sections. Do the council really have the power to demand driver details?
Yup
The letter in the opening post gives the basic legislation that covers London.
I'm not sure about the rest of the country?
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I understand that Blue Badge misue is often prosecuted by the issuing authority.
A few authorities prosecute as fraud rather than as a misuse offence. The former tends to attract a higher sentence.
Google should help you find your authorities general method.
I believe there are also some authorities which still don't prosecute.
Many councils now have a dedicated BB Abuse team... maybe only one man and a dog but they are dedicated to the issue.
The team dealing with it will continue IMO
AFAIK, they do have to recommend to issuing authority if they believe the BB ought to be withdrawn, that decision is down to the issuer.
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I understand that Blue Badge misue is often prosecuted by the issuing authority.
A few authorities prosecute as fraud rather than as a misuse offence. The former tends to attract a higher sentence.
Google should help you find your authorities general method.
I believe there are also some authorities which still don't prosecute.
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So as the topic say I stupidly took advantage of my blue badge by reporting it lost 2 times to get 2 new ones and use all as I have 3 cars in my household and I can get free parking with it. I park all cars at the same area. Few days ago I went to my cars and the one with the old blue badge had a PCN on it. The anti fraud unit has written to me asking for details. The blue badge unit also sent me an email asking me if recieved my badge. I have not replied to either one. I’m panicking because I feel not only have they discovered the invalid one but maybe they have been able to connect the two present at the time of checks and just waiting to disclose it all to me when they get me in for an interview under caution. I do not want to make mistakes going forward so any advice would be helpful. (I am aware what I did was wrong & definitely not here to look for pity) I accept full responsibility and just looking for some understanding of how things are likely to proceed.
@BuzzingBee we have a strict rule of one account per user. You don't get to post multiple versions of events from multiple accounts to try and see what version of events is the most convenient.
I'm also moving this thread to the criminal forum because you are plainly in need of criminal defence advice rather than PCN advice. If you want to try challenging the PCNs on technical grounds by all means post a new thread in the PCN forum and someone might have a look, but please be open and upfront about the circumstances. While the PCNs might be rightly issued, that does not preclude a technical appeal.
As for your prospective fraud charges, it'll be interesting to see what the experts in criminal law think but part of me is mindied to say that a full and frank admission might see you let off with a police caution or some similarly lenient disposal, while I suspect that if you try and defend this and are convicted the bench would throw the book at you (not least because given their age profile, many magistrates are blue badge holders themselves).
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You are in the do do and it is your fault BB is issued to a person not a vehicle and you thought you would circumvent that by lying, that in itself is grounds for a fraud charge mess about and you could risk prison for that or perverting the course of justice very easily
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Somehow I don't think you will get a lot of sympathy.
What seemed like a good wheeze is now coming home to bite you.
The PCN will cost, I'd suggest grabbing the discount unless you feel you can defend but in honesty, the only defence I can see is lying and I'm not about to suggest that.
Similarly the anti fraud team will want to interview the driver, if the letter from them says what I think it does, it will say that it is an offence not to respond or to provide the information requested.
I will also point out lying under oath can make a poor situation worse
Potentially a criminal charge, fines can go up to £1000 IIRC and the BB team can withdraw your BB.
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Thanks. I know you said not to ignore or hide BUT what would happen if I do. Will they end up convicting the vehicle keeper/owner who is my cousin or they will somehow link it to me. At the moment the letter is addressed to my cousin and I have not been mentioned at all as to their knowledge I have reported the badge lost.
If your cousin names you then you will be interviewed and as said, chances are it will end there.
If your cousin doesn't name you, he will likely end up being interviewed.
Refusal to answer can lead to court proceedings and a fine.
If he persisted in it wasn't me but I am not saying who it was, potentially it could see a charge arising from misuse of the BB against him. Bear in mind you lost the BB, reported it and it has now been found being used in cousin's car...there may be no solid evidence but many if not most BB frauds are family members so they would be making the assumption and trying to make charges stick.
If either of you were to lie and blame AN Other, this would be lying under oath and a charge of Perverting the Course of Justice could arise.
Basically, tell the truth and all should be well, evade or lie and get really into the smelly stuff.
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Well, if you've now paid, there is nothing more we can advise you on. Paying closes off the adjudication appeal option.
Paying closes the case? I don't get it. Aside the PCN I have also been asked to provide my details for using. the cancelled blue badge. To my knowledge they are two different cases.
Two cases in effect. The civil one of using a BB that is not valid that is the PCN. Shame you paid coz it is almost certain that could have been overturned as it was not served properly.
Then you have an investigation into a criminal matter. Fraud. You need deal with this. do not hide of try to blag it tell them what happened, they will have a record of you reporting the badge stolen/lost. Remember as of now the council do not know who was using the badge when the are given the information that it was you the person entitled to hold it, how they will look at things is likely to be very different
Thanks. I know you said not to ignore or hide BUT what would happen if I do. Will they end up convicting the vehicle keeper/owner who is my cousin or they will somehow link it to me. At the moment the letter is addressed to my cousin and I have not been mentioned at all as to their knowledge I have reported the badge lost.
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So as the topic say I stupidly took advantage of my blue badge by reporting it lost 2 times to get 2 new ones and use all as I have 3 cars in my household and I can get free parking with it. I park all cars at the same area. Few days ago I went to my cars and the one with the old blue badge had a PCN on it. The anti fraud unit has written to me asking for details. The blue badge unit also sent me an email asking me if recieved my badge. I have not replied to either one. I’m panicking because I feel not only have they discovered the invalid one but maybe they have been able to connect the two present at the time of checks and just waiting to disclose it all to me when they get me in for an interview under caution. I do not want to make mistakes going forward so any advice would be helpful. (I am aware what I did was wrong & definitely not here to look for pity) I accept full responsibility and just looking for some understanding of how things are likely to proceed.
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Well, if you've now paid, there is nothing more we can advise you on. Paying closes off the adjudication appeal option.
Paying closes the case? I don't get it. Aside the PCN I have also been asked to provide my details for using. the cancelled blue badge. To my knowledge they are two different cases.
Two cases in effect. The civil one of using a BB that is not valid that is the PCN. Shame you paid coz it is almost certain that could have been overturned as it was not served properly.
Then you have an investigation into a criminal matter. Fraud. You need deal with this. do not hide of try to blag it tell them what happened, they will have a record of you reporting the badge stolen/lost. Remember as of now the council do not know who was using the badge when the are given the information that it was you the person entitled to hold it, how they will look at things is likely to be very different
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Well, if you've now paid, there is nothing more we can advise you on. Paying closes off the adjudication appeal option.
Paying closes the case? I don't get it. Aside the PCN I have also been asked to provide my details for using. the cancelled blue badge. To my knowledge they are two different cases.
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Well, if you've now paid, there is nothing more we can advise you on. Paying closes off the adjudication appeal option.
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Please confirm that you are still entitled to a Blue Badge?
Was a new one issued when you reported the old one lost?
Your cousin.... the letter has to be replied to unless he wants to end up facing a summons to court.
He should provide your name and address (whichever is best for you)
They are investigating Blue Badge abuse (S117 RTRA 1984) which given the use of a cancelled badge is understandable.
Assuming that you are still entitled and it was a simple error, I would expect no more then an interview and a borrocking.
Your PCN..... by the sounds of it bang to rights in using a cancelled BB but an apologetic challenge with a copy of your legitimate badge?? and explanation that it was a simple error and why may get it cancelled.
If you can post the PCN we can also look if any errors
Thanks for the help.
Yes I am still entitled to a blue badge. I receive the highest component of PIP mobility component and walk with a stick. When I applied for a new one I was not issued a new one. This was because on the day of payment the councils systems was down and they could not take the £10 payment after many tries. I found my old one within the same week and just forgot about it.
My cousin will provide my details and my address and the next stages will be inviting me for an interview. I already sent a challenge for the PCN but after receiving this letter today I have just gone on to pay for it.
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Please confirm that you are still entitled to a Blue Badge?
Was a new one issued when you reported the old one lost?
Your cousin.... the letter has to be replied to unless he wants to end up facing a summons to court.
He should provide your name and address (whichever is best for you)
They are investigating Blue Badge abuse (S117 RTRA 1984) which given the use of a cancelled badge is understandable.
Assuming that you are still entitled and it was a simple error, I would expect no more then an interview and a borrocking.
Your PCN..... by the sounds of it bang to rights in using a cancelled BB but an apologetic challenge with a copy of your legitimate badge?? and explanation that it was a simple error and why may get it cancelled.
If you can post the PCN we can also look if any errors
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Hi All
This is my first post after just joining so please pardon any mistakes on my behalf. I came across this page while looking for help. I will try and keep it short.
I am a disabled veteran with a blue badge. As of August I misplaced my blue badge and reported it lost. I found my old badge and used it but unbeknownst to me it had been cancelled. The car I am driving is registered in my cousins name but I am insured to drive it. The Internal Audit And Anti Fraud team of Another council has now issued me a PCN and also sent my cousin a NOTICE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION stating "contravention of section 117. He is asked to provide information of driver and any other information identifying driver.
A crucial information is I live at two addresses. My old address which I still receive Mail at and have family there is the council that issued my blue badge (Oxfordshire). My new address anti fraud team is the council that has issued me the PCN and the letter (Greenwich). Even though this is an honest mistake should I be worried and what advise would you give me on how to proceed. I have also attached the letter sent to my cousin who is the registered keeper. Thank you.
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