Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mussy52 on October 09, 2023, 03:20:58 pm
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Not sure if @mrmustard needs these, but for future reference here are:
The Brent (Goods Vehicles) (Free Loading PLaces) (No. 2) Order 2013 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1N8vWhO3E7lknVfJDSDqdMcOV-pI9XBwf)
The Brent (Goods Vehicles) (Free Loading Places) (No. 5) Order 2022 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1SGU_HjrMtYp9aPcRVaMwn_otxqylh4Pz)
The Brent (Goods Vehicles) (Free Loading Places) (No. 1) Order 2023 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1ruVHU4K2NyE30kMQ-o6nTqatn23ml1fv)
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I have emailed you mussy52, the time to act is now.
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@mrmustard Apologies, I misunderstood! Sending an email your way shortly, thanks!
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any reason you don't want me to manage the whole thing for you given I have done this 2000 times?
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@mrmustard Thank you very much.
Just wanted to check with you before I submit your comments for the appeal - Is it worth mentioning your last point - the offer to pay 50% should not be there and the date has passed, as has the date to pay at 100% which is mandatory?
Also to clarify - Do I need to include my commentary from my informal appeal with this or can it be disregarded?
Thanks
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@mussy52 I recommend you take up MrMustard's offer, you're in safe hands with him.
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There are two main arguments.
1 The 28 day period is wrongly stated on the PCN. It should be 'that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the dateon which the alleged contravention occurred'. It does not matter that the two dates in question are usually the same. I have won on this at the tribunal.
2 The PCN is vague as to the alleged contravention. Tribunal case 2170522445 is typical and the decision says
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle. The alleged contravention occurred in The Broadway at 1.12pm on 5 September 2017.
The Schedule to The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 sets out the contents required by the Regulations for a valid PCN served under Regulation 10.
Among other things, the PCN is required to state the grounds on which the enforcement authority believes that the penalty charge is payable. Those grounds must be expressed in terms that allow the recipient of the PCN to properly understand the nature of the alleged contravention.
The Council say that the place in which Mrs Baltrusch De Gois' car was parked was a goods vehicle only loading bay. In other words, the bay was designated for goods vehicles only. This is not, however, clear on the face of the PCN which states simply that the vehicle was parked in a place not designated for that class of vehicle.
A motorist reading the PCN would not understand from the wording the nature of the alleged contravention because there is nothing to explain the class of vehicle for which the parking place was designated. The PCN needs to identify, whether by wording or images, that the class of vehicle for which the bay is designated is goods vehicles only.
I therefore find that the PCN was invalid and the appeal is allowed for that reason.
Happy to be the representative. Email mrmustard@zoho.com
Follwing a message round our experts whatsapp group I have realised the offer to pay 50% should not be there and the date has passed, as has the date to pay at 100% which is mandatory content and fatal to the PCN & NtO.
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NTO received - https://imgur.com/a/qABz2ed
Thanks in advance
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Traffic order ordered.
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Did you look at the sign by the bay which defines the restrictions for the bay ?
None of your reps refutes the requirement for vehicles using the bay for loading to be goods vehicles. Looking at your photos, your vehicle is a passenger car so you will struggle to overturn the PCN.
Sometimes the PCN can contain a fatal error of content, so if you post the back of it, we can have a loot=k. The front looks OK, however.
Yes - an image/location of where I was loading was provided by John.
Here is the back of the PCN - https://imgur.com/a/tLqrHh0
Thanks
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The time in which to pay 50% has expired and so there is nothing to do except wait for the Notice to Owner (usually more than 28 days after the informal rejection but can be sent earlier, maximum is 6 months from date of alleged contravention) and then we can put together a short precise set of representations including anything which might turn out to be non compliant on the Notice to Owner so mussy52 please put up copies of all pages (cover only the name and address) once it arrives.
The PCN does appear on the Brent website.
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Did you look at the sign by the bay which defines the restrictions for the bay ?
None of your reps refutes the requirement for vehicles using the bay for loading to be goods vehicles. Looking at your photos, your vehicle is a passenger car so you will struggle to overturn the PCN.
Sometimes the PCN can contain a fatal error of content, so if you post the back of it, we can have a loot=k. The front looks OK, however.
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Is it here, perhaps?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/k58iYftk5ZMjdtfv6
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Hi all,
Received the following PCN - https://imgur.com/a/Ri3ELAp
My informal appeal was as follows:
"To whom it may concern,
I would like to formally challenge the issued PCN for the following reasons: Procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority:
The PCN has been incorrectly completed. The Schedule to The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 sets out the contents required by the Regulations for a valid PCN served under Regulation 9. The PCN is required to state the grounds on which the enforcement authority believes that the penalty charge is payable. Those grounds must be expressed in terms that allow the recipient of the PCN to properly understand the nature of the alleged contravention.
It is not clear on the face of the PCN what contravention has occurred as it simply states that the vehicle was parked in a place not designated for that class of vehicle. I do not understand from the wording given the nature of the alleged contravention. There is nothing to explain the class of vehicle for which the parking place was designated. The PCN needs to identify the class of vehicle for which the bay is designated. Mitigating Circumstances: I am a delivery driver for Amazon Flex and was making a Morrison's grocery delivery for a resident of Flat 422 Canada Gardens. There is no other area for me to unload my vehicle on this road other than the loading area.
I make reference to a TFL website which gives guidance on the correct use of loading bays: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes...-for-the-public “Loading is the activity of moving goods to, or from, a vehicle. As a general guide, such goods, due to their weight or bulk, require the use of a vehicle to transport them. We will allow reasonable time for collecting goods and checking paperwork, however, as soon as the loading process is complete, the vehicle must be moved. The goods must be ready for collection or delivery when you enter the loading bay.”
I believe my use of the loading bay meets these criteria. “Loading bays are an essential part of the red route network as they allow businesses and the general public to make and receive vital, and often bulky deliveries. Availability of these bays is limited and for specified periods only to restrict disruption to our busy road network. Our priority is to keep London moving - not raising revenue through fines. To help you avoid an unnecessary fine, we have explained how loading bays work.”
I correctly planned my use of the loading bay. I correctly parked in the loading bay (as you will see from the evidential photos) so as not to cause an obstruction to the flow of traffic. I did not stay in the bay longer than permitted. “What you should do is use a loading bay to collect pre-ordered goods or unload goods that require a vehicle to transport them (eg an item of furniture such as a chest of drawers). Plan in advance the collection of pre-ordered goods and check if loading is permitted at that time and location. If you leave the vehicle unattended try to make it obvious that you are loading and unloading. Tell any traffic warden or civil enforcement officer that you are loading. You may use a parking bay instead if one is available but always check the sign as it will tell you when you can park and for how long. If you are displaying a Blue Badge you may stop in the bay to drop off or pick up the Blue Badge holder only. Please display the Blue Badge clearly on the dashboard”
I used the loading bay to unload goods that required a vehicle to transport them. “What you shouldn't do is stop in the bay without loading or unloading - the bay is not for waiting or parking. Use the bay outside of the hours shown on the sign or for longer than permitted. Use the bay to park or go shopping. Use the bay to pick up and drop off passengers. Remain in the bay when you have finished loading or unloading goods Move goods that do not require the use of a vehicle to transport (eg taking a suit to the dry cleaners or collecting a prescription)”
I did not stop in the bay without loading or unloading, I did not use the bay outside operational hours or for longer than permitted, I did not use the bay to go shopping, I did not use the bay to pick up or drop off passengers, I did not remain in the bay after I had finished unloading and I did not move goods that do not require a vehicle to move them. I am sure that establishes that I correctly used the loading bay for its intended purpose of loading. A quote from the DfT Operational Guidance to Local Authorities: Parking Policy and Enforcement “11.4 An authority has a discretionary power to cancel a PCN at any point throughout the CPE process. It can do this even when an undoubted contravention has occurred if the authority deems it to be appropriate in the circumstances of the case. Under general principles of public law, authorities have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest.”
Anyone using sensible discretion and acting reasonably can see that on this occasion I was acting on good faith, using the loading bay correctly to unload. For these reasons I believe the PCN should be cancelled.
Many thanks"
The council rejected the appeal - https://imgur.com/a/CO9s4p5
and now I am wondering whether it is worth lodging a formal appeal. Any guidance is appreciated.
Thanks