Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Dip0 on June 09, 2025, 06:31:16 pm
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I had a formal notice of rejection of formal representation now dated 16/9/25 when I submitted one on 17/6/25.
Will tribunal still view this negatively towards the council given its pretty much 90 days now?
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Ealing council are terrible at appeals. When I got my last PCN from them, they only replied after I got my local MP to chase them up.
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions
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Let the sleeping dog lie.
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Thank you, that's good to know. When I submitted the form on the PCN challenge page of their website, it said 30 days so I guess I might need to wait longer.
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There is no statutory time limit, but if they take over three months the tribunal will normally view the delay as unfair.
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So following my appeal to them 17th June it's been more than 30 days and I've not heard anything back. The ticket is still showing as active and discounted if I go to try an pay it on their website.
I emailed them at one stage about the spam message before hearing about it here and had no response about that either.
Is there a limit until when they need to respond to me before it can be considered cancelled
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Ah ok thank you, I was worried as the timing was impeccable
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dft-issues-warning-about-scam-text-messages-asking-people-to-pay-fines
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Looks like a scam message. When I tried the link it came up "not found". The message does not have your name, or the PCN Number on it. There is no such lawful message in the legal process for enforcement of PCNs. Certainly do not pay anything.
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So I am waiting for an outcome of me appealing/challenging the PCN but recrived a text message today saying:
Legal Pre-Action Notice: PCN Fine Remains Unpaid
This fine is a valid recorded offence in the system and remains unpaid to date. If not resolved by 10 July 2025, legal proceedings may be initiated, potentially resulting in additional costs.
Payment link:https://gov.comsitbntbz.live/PCN?MkV=Vo4Xq2
My impression was that payment is on hold while the challenge is pending?
When I go to challenge on their website it's still showing the discounted price currently.
Should I ring the council or can I safely ignore this?
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The defective TMO argument is still valid but previous decisions are not legally binding, we have a bunch of newly appointed adjudicators who have no idea what they're doing, so there is an element of risk. I also wouldn't really recommend a DIY appeal as it's a very technical argument, but it can still succeed.
I don't see much chance of a challenge on the signage getting anywhere, as there are two signs and they were approached head-on. It might also be possible to trip the authority up into making a procedural mistake, it's a bit convoluted but it can help to have two grounds of appeal rather than one.
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Thank you I have sent him a forum message :)
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Message our admin cp8759 - he won that appeal and may know if it's still valid.
I think appeals on signage haven't succeeded.
(https://i.ibb.co/gMG7BGXx/83498e338d3b9d70e1ad101628902e35f797f5d1.gif)
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Sorry still waiting for some help regarding tm response
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Thank you both - I'll see to see if we drive past the area again before the discount period ends to take photos.
Regarding the other case where the appeal was allowed, has there been any change since or could I quote this in a challenge?
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Case Details
Case reference 224057609A
Appellant Guaranteed Cleaning Ltd
Authority London Borough of Ealing
VRM EJ67 EEN
PCN Details
PCN AO03081874
Contravention date 04 Nov 2024
Contravention time 08:53:00
Contravention location Perimeade Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Fail comply restriction vehicles entering ped zone
Referral date -
Decision Date 10 Feb 2025
Adjudicator Martin Hoare
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons
Mr Murray Smith represented Guaranteed Cleaning Limited. No one represented the Authority.
He submitted that The Traffic Management Order does not establish a pedestrian zone.
He submitted that ‘a pedestrian zone sign can only be placed if there is an Act, order, regulation, bylaw, resolution or notice that creates a pedestrian zone…… The traffic management order at evidence item B does not create a pedestrian zone, it merely creates a motor vehicle prohibition’.
The Authority’s The Ealing (Perivale School Streets) (No.1) Order Schedule 1 refers to prescribed streets which include ‘Perimeade Road, between the Western kerb-line of Fairfield Drive and its junction with Federal Road’.
However the Order does not create a pedestrian zone.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/8/part/2/made
provides
'PART 5The Schedule 8 General Directions
1. The signs provided for-
(a)in the sign table in Part 2; and
(b)at items 1, 2, 6 and 7 of the sign table in Part 4,
must only be placed to indicate the effect of an Act, order, regulation, bylaw, resolution or notice which restricts or prohibits the use of the road by traffic'.
Josephine Dayan v London Borough of Barnet (2220227611, 18 May 2022), held that in order to use a zone boundary sign it is of crucial importance that the Traffic Management Order (TMO) must create a zone, or else there is no lawful authority to install zone boundary signs.
Accordingly the signage evident in the Authority images is not authorised by the applicable law and the penalty charge notice cannot be enforced.
The appeal is allowed.
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Unfortunately, only Perimeade Road is up-to-date on GSV, the approach from Fairfield Drive has a gap in coverage as one approaches the T-junction. We really do need to see if there is an advance warning sign on Fairfield Drive. If there isn't, then you're in with a fair chance. We see these all the time, and whether one can win is always a bit of a puzzle with what is there on the ground signage-wise.
Any chance of a photo of the approach on Fairfield Drive ?
There may also be a 'technical' appeal based on Ealing mismanagement of the enforcement process. Such appeals have nothing to do with the actual alleged contravention. Unfortunately, councils never accept ther are ever in the wrong so you'd have to forego the discount and take them to London Tribunals.
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PCN Ao05283982
LS74 WFH
Wife was picking up her parents who live local and took a wrong turn. Says she never even saw the signs and didn't realise it was restricted due to cars parked either side on the road.
She entered from Fairfield drive so the signage wasn't quite visible from the right turn as left sign obscured by tree and right sign very close to turn itself, and at the time of the turn, the car entering Fairfield drive on the photo was coming from there so blocked her vision of the sign partially too.
Car registered to me so I received the PCN.
Any ideas on whether this is something that can be challenged?
This doesn't have a video on the PCN page.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/x2QmRSQ5McgwX78t8?g_st=ac
Thanks in advance. Have to pay by 17/6/25 for reduced fee
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