Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: mickR on June 07, 2025, 03:57:17 pm

Title: Re: Barnet hospital drop off zone Parking Eye
Post by: DWMB2 on June 09, 2025, 10:06:36 pm
I'm tempted to write a letter of complaint to the trust ceo
I think you are correctly to do so...
Title: Re: Barnet hospital drop off zone Parking Eye
Post by: mickR on June 09, 2025, 09:14:40 pm
I'm tempted to write a letter of complaint to the trust ceo
Title: Re: Barnet hospital drop off zone Parking Eye
Post by: b789 on June 09, 2025, 08:57:25 pm
You have to wonder at the intellectual malnourishment of whoever wrote:

Quote
I have looked into your parking charge and can confirm that the parking charged issued to you are correctly.

Also, the fact that they call the alleged contravention an "offence" shows a clear failure to understand their legal standing.

Anyway, it's a win. Well done.
Title: Re: Barnet hospital drop off zone Parking Eye
Post by: mickR on June 09, 2025, 05:54:40 pm
well RF have cancelled it as I expected. interesting read.
referring to it as a "Parking charge" despite the 'no evidence of parking' point  and very bad grammar.

Royal Free cancellation letter (https://imgur.com/a/9S8j6We)

The issue of misleading signage aside....
Title: Re: Barnet hospital drop off zone Parking Eye
Post by: b789 on June 07, 2025, 06:03:54 pm
If they're not helping then email the CEO of the Trust and have a senior minion make them deal with it.
Title: Re: Barnet hospital drop off zone Parking Eye
Post by: mickR on June 07, 2025, 05:48:46 pm
thanks for that detailed explanation.
FYI I didn't bother with PALs as the last few incidents I've seen at Barnet, (Barnet driver being the latest) PALs were no help.
Title: Re: Barnet hospital drop off zone Parking Eye
Post by: b789 on June 07, 2025, 05:33:34 pm
You should still have gone to PALS. ParkingEye will be relying on the PPSCoP section 5.2 which states:

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5.2. Grace period

A grace period as set out at Annex B to this Code must be allowed by the parking operator in addition to the parking period. A parking charge must not be issued during a Grace Period.

NOTE 1: The grace period does not apply other than where the driver has parked in compliance with the applicable terms and conditions – it does not apply in isolation so as to allow free parking up to the sum of the consideration and grace periods.
NOTE 2: The grace period does not apply to short stay areas – controlled land where the parking of a vehicle is permissible for a limited period not greater than 30 minutes, for example at airport and railway station drop off and pick up zones.
NOTE 3: A grace period is relevant where there is a time limit on the permitted period of parking for example 2 hours free parking or parking is paid for 1 hour etc. It is not relevant when there is no limit on the period of parking.

Note 2 is guidance, not an absolute bar. It says the grace period “does not apply to short stay areas,” but does not prohibit operators from applying one.

In any event, a drop-off/pick-up zone at a hospital is not analogous to an airport or railway station. The risk, context, and traffic control needs are entirely different.

The hospital’s own signage will be critical: if it invites 20 minutes of parking, not just drop-off/pick-up or waiting, then it’s operating as a short-term free parking area, not a no-waiting zone.

Annex B to the PPSCoP (which 5.2 references) also allows operators to apply grace periods unless explicitly disapplied. If ParkingEye's contract with the landowner or their operational policy does not expressly state that the grace period is disapplied at Barnet Hospital, they must apply it.

You can put them to strict proof of this contract and policy. Signage says 20 minutes permitted stay – not "no waiting" If the sign says “20 minutes maximum stay” or similar, that is permitted parking.

This would bring it under Note 3, not Note 2 — which requires a grace period. Note 2 applies to zones where waiting is discouraged or prohibited, not to areas inviting 20 minutes of use.

Even if ParkingEye tries to rely on the Note 2 exception, enforcing a PCN for a 3-minute “overstay” is likely to be found disproportionate, especially in a public hospital context. Many adjudicators and judges will consider a 3-minute excess unreasonable grounds to engage the penalty rule in a consumer contract setting (see Beavis caveat for cases lacking commercial justification).

If you have no luck with RFP or PALS, then you can try the following as your appeal as the Keeper:

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1. No Keeper Liability – Non-compliance with PoFA 2012

Your Notice to Keeper fails to comply with Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. This section of the law requires you to:

“invite the keeper—
(i) to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii) if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.”

Your Notice contains no such invitation. Instead, it includes a warning under Paragraph 9(2)(f), which states what may happen if the keeper does nothing. That is not the same thing. The two paragraphs serve different legal purposes:

• 9(2)(e)(i) requires you to invite the keeper to take action.
• 9(2)(f) allows you to warn the keeper of the consequences if no action is taken.

Your Notice contains only the latter. It therefore does not meet the mandatory requirements of PoFA, and as such, you cannot transfer liability to the Registered Keeper.

2. Parking Time Was Within Permitted Period

The vehicle was present at Barnet Hospital to collect a discharged patient and was parked for no more than the 20 minutes permitted. Your ANPR system only records the time the vehicle entered and exited the site, not the time it was actually parked. Time spent queuing, waiting for other vehicles to move, or slowly navigating hospital congestion is not parking.

3. Statutory Grace Period Applies

Even if a minor overstay had occurred, your allegation of a 3-minute excess is defeated by the mandatory 10-minute grace period required by the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP), Section 5.2. The sign at Barnet Hospital clearly allows 20 minutes’ parking – not just stopping or waiting – and the grace period must be in addition to that time.

The note in the Code that refers to "short stay areas" is not applicable here. Barnet Hospital is not an airport or train station. This is not a no-waiting zone or restricted area; rather, it permits free short-term parking for patient needs.

Conclusion

This PCN is invalid on several grounds:

• The NtK is non-compliant with PoFA, so there is no keeper liability.
• The vehicle was not parked for more than 20 minutes.
• Any recorded excess falls within the grace period, which you are required to apply.

Please cancel this charge. If you refuse, you must issue a POPLA code so I may escalate the matter.
Title: Barnet hospital drop off zone Parking Eye
Post by: mickR on June 07, 2025, 03:57:17 pm
RK recived this invoice from Parking Eye. the driver was picking up patient from Barnet Hospital drop off/ pick up zone which allows 20mins free. pcn alledges 3min overstay at 23mins.

Bypassed PALs and gone direct Royal Free parking. awaiting reply.
stated that photos are of vehicle on roadway entering and leaving but not parked. Also that the area is very busy and drivers can be caught waiting for cars to move or park for some time.

Pcn and pics
front (https://imgur.com/a/Dp5MMN9)
back (https://imgur.com/a/XNX1zf6)
sign at carpark entrance  (https://imgur.com/a/CMkBR1D)
sign at Do/Pu zone entrance (https://imgur.com/a/bq9IriR)
sing in Do/Pu zone (https://imgur.com/a/GxXFTO6)
close up (https://imgur.com/a/DtF9rMP)
Do/Pu zone road markings (https://imgur.com/a/odL38Dq)
camera on roadway leaving Do/Pu zone (https://imgur.com/a/GQ6pTd2)

road markings suggest 20mins is for parking bays. sign says for zone.
in the event RF don't cancel what arguments are available.
pcn pofa compliant?