Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Bob_A on June 05, 2025, 02:26:06 pm

Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on November 07, 2025, 02:46:51 pm
Ok but in a previous post I mentioned I was doing it for the benefit of others in my position so they know what to expect.

I can't help with legal matters but I thought I could help in that way, but I will stop as requested.

Your previous post about CCJs was helpful

I've spoken to others who have said they would have paid up by now.
I would imagine it could be quite worrying for others. Especially that link that says keepers could be liable.


Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on November 07, 2025, 02:11:26 pm
How many times do you need to be reminded that ALL debt recovery letters can be safely ignored? We don’t need to know about them.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on November 07, 2025, 11:36:41 am
Debt Recovery Plus are still sending me letters.
On the last letter they said I had until 25/10/25 or they will escalate.
This one dated 4/11/25 is pretty much the same, give them £170 by 18/11/2025 to avoid it going up to £280, plus court action and CCJ

Not that it matters but in the previous letter they say they've contacted me 7 times.
This letter says it's 5  ::) 

Still no LoC so I will continue to ignore

The letter does have a link though
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
I assume that's more scare tactics?

Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on October 17, 2025, 04:02:08 pm
Nothing we advise on here will make anyone get a CCJ.

Quote
A County Court Judgment (CCJ) does not just happen—it follows a clear legal process. If someone gets a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private parking company, here's what happens step by step:

1. Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued

• The parking company sends a letter (Notice to Keeper) demanding money.
• This is not a fine—it’s an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

2. Opportunity to Appeal

• The recipient can appeal to the parking company.
•If rejected, they may be able to appeal to POPLA (if BPA member) or IAS (if IPC member).
• If an appeal is lost or ignored, the parking company demands payment.

3. Debt Collection Letters

• The parking company might send scary letters or pass the case to a debt collector.
• Debt collectors have no power—they just send letters and can be ignored.
No CCJ happens at this stage.

4. Letter Before Claim (LBC)

• If ignored for long enough, the parking company (or their solicitor) sends a Letter Before Claim (LBC).
• This is a warning that they may start a court case.
• The recipient has 30 days to reply before a claim is filed.
No CCJ happens at this stage.

5. County Court Claim Issued

• If ignored or unpaid, the parking company may file a claim with the County Court.
• The court sends a Claim Form with details of the claim and how to respond.
• The recipient has 14 days to respond (or 28 days if they acknowledge it).
No CCJ happens at this stage.

6. Court Process

• If the recipient defends the claim, a judge decides if they owe money.
• If the recipient ignores the claim, the parking company wins by default.
No CCJ happens yet unless the recipient loses and ignores the court.

7. Judgment & Payment

• If the court rules that money is owed, the recipient has 30 days to pay in full.
• If they pay within 30 days, no CCJ goes on their credit file.
• If they don’t pay within 30 days, the CCJ stays on their credit file for 6 years.

Conclusion

CCJs do not appear out of thin air. They only happen if:

• A parking company takes the case to court.
• The person loses or ignores the case.
• The person fails to pay within 30 days.

If you engage with the process (appeal, defend, or pay on time), no CCJ happens.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on October 17, 2025, 11:37:38 am
I've received another letter from Debt Recovery Plus saying a CCJ can be issued against me.
Legal action is imminent and they are recording my actions and updating their clients legal team.

They claim to have contacted me 7 seven times, more like 3 or 4 times from what I remember.

As with my previous post there's no need to reply. I'm posting for the reasons given in my last post :)
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on October 01, 2025, 09:10:44 am
I've just received another debt recovery letter telling me the parking charge is legally enforceable and will rise to £280 if I lose in court.

I've been told to ignore all debt recovery letters and I will, so I'm not expecting a reply back from the experts.
Only reason for this update is for others who find themselves in a similar situation and what to expect, which is as predicted a series of these type of letters.

I'm still waiting for the LoC
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on September 19, 2025, 11:33:48 am
Nothing has changed. You can safely ignore ALL debt collector letters. Come back if/when you receive an actual Letter of Claim (LoC). We do not need to know about debt recovery letters.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on September 19, 2025, 10:15:09 am
OK just checking in case procedures had changed since I last posted 👍
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: mickR on September 19, 2025, 10:06:40 am
No, nothing has changed since you were last told to ignore debt collectors letters and come back when you recive correspondence titled "letter of claim" or similar. which you haven't.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on September 19, 2025, 09:33:45 am
Hello, back again.

Just to say I've received another letter from Debt Recovery Plus.
It says I owe £170 and if legal action is taken against me it will rise £280

Reason for issue is 'VRM not registered on the E-permit system ANPR'

I assume nothing has changed, I ignore the letter and continue not to correspond with them?





Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on August 23, 2025, 04:19:00 pm
Thank you, messaged understood, I will ignore the letter.
I'm so glad for the guidance because I'd be in trouble if left to my own devices.
Thanks again
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on August 23, 2025, 01:47:21 pm
Although it’s been said I can ignore the letter from Debt Recovery Plus, I’d feel more at ease replying to them and tell them a reason why I will not be paying.
It may be a waste of time but I just feel better in myself if I don’t ignore people.

Could someone help me with that please?

What about
Dear Sirs
This is to inform you that I will not be paying as I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.

It might not be relevant to this debt recovery company but at least it’s something and I can’t be accused of ignoring the letter

Absolutely not!!! Do not correspond with Debt Recovery Plus. They are a powerless third party with no standing, no authority to sue, and no relevance to any alleged contract. Engaging with them achieves nothing but invites more templated demands.

If, despite clear guidance, you insist on writing to a debt collector, you are advertising yourself as low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree who is likely to eventually pay up out of ignorance and fear—the very profile these outfits are set up to exploit. You can safely shred their letters, ignore them, and stop legitimising a bystander.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: jfollows on August 23, 2025, 09:49:58 am
Agreed, do not reply to debt collectors, you are trying to be polite and reasonable, but they don’t give a toss about you, other than your credit card number. Replying will only notify them that you’re on their hook, and will increase the number of threatening letters you get, plus - as said - you might put something in writing which will harm your position later.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: paulpaul1308 on August 23, 2025, 09:23:03 am
Do not feel bound by politeness to respond to debt collectors. They can do nothing except send you letters and should be ignored completely. If you respond to them you could make things worse for yourself by revealing something that you shouldn't. There is no upside for you all.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: WhoLetTheScamsOut on August 23, 2025, 12:27:16 am
Someone correct me if im wrong but dont operators who use anpr system must have that stated within their signage? I know CPM slip up a lot and dont mention anpr is in use on the actual terms and conditions signage but sometimes they mention it on the entrance sign. May be worth for OP to check if there is any mention of anpr being used on the signage.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on August 22, 2025, 11:53:26 pm
Although it’s been said I can ignore the letter from Debt Recovery Plus, I’d feel more at ease replying to them and tell them a reason why I will not be paying.
It may be a waste of time but I just feel better in myself if I don’t ignore people.

Could someone help me with that please?

What about
Dear Sirs
This is to inform you that I will not be paying as I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.

It might not be relevant to this debt recovery company but at least it’s something and I can’t be accused of ignoring the letter

Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on August 22, 2025, 01:15:34 pm
A third party debt collector cannot issue an LoC. They are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver.

An LoC will tell you that it is a Letter of Claim (or Letter Before claim or something similar). Also, a real LoC must give you 30 days to make payment, not the 14 days that these powerless debt collectors give.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: JustLoveCars on August 22, 2025, 11:14:52 am
I assume what I have received is a Letter of Claim?
No.  That's debt collector trash that can be filed and ignored.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on August 22, 2025, 10:57:02 am
I assume what I have received is a Letter of Claim?

If so I was told to come back once I had received it.
That to me suggested there was to be some further instructions.

So there's no misunderstanding on my part, what do I do next?

Thanks

Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: DWMB2 on August 22, 2025, 10:42:15 am
Please could you tell me the next step
The previous reply from b789 covers this.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on August 22, 2025, 10:39:25 am
Hello again

I received this letter today. Please could you tell me the next step

Many thanks
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on July 18, 2025, 02:20:11 pm
Nothing happens now! You were told that the IAS is a corrupt scam and the odds of ever having an IAS appeal win is less than 4%.

Their decision is not binding on you and you certainly don't pay. You will have to now weather the useless debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

Come back when you receive a Letter of Claim (loC).
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on July 18, 2025, 02:13:37 pm
I've had a reply but before that in my last post I mentioned that they had disabled cutting and pasting on the appeals website.
After a bit googling I managed to overcome that.
For anyone interested google "unable to cut and paste on website javascript"

Here is the reply
Dear xxx

The Independent Appeals Service (IAS) has received a decision from the Independent Adjudicator regarding your recent appeal for the below PCN.

Parking Charge Number (PCN): xxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxx
Date Issued: 28/05/2025

Appeal Outcome: Dismissed

The Adjudicators comments are as follows:

"It is important that the Appellant understands that the adjudicator is not in a position to give his legal advice. The adjudicator's role is to look at whether the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each particular case. The adjudicator's decision is not legally binding on the Appellant (it is intended to be a guide) and they are free to obtain independent legal advice if they so wish. However, the adjudicator is legally qualified (a barrister or solicitor) and decides the appeal according to their understanding of the law and legal principles.

The terms of this appeal are that I am only allowed to consider the charge being appealed and not the circumstances of other drivers or other parking events. The guidance to this appeal also makes it clear that I am bound by the law of contract and can only consider legal challenges not mistakes or extenuating circumstances. I am satisfied that the Operator's signage, which was on display throughout the site, makes it sufficiently clear that the terms and conditions are in force at all times and that a PCN will be issued to drivers who fail to comply with the terms and conditions, regardless of a driver's reasons for being on site or any mitigating factors. While noting their comments, it is clear from the evidence provided to this appeal that the Appellant did indeed enter and use the site otherwise than in accordance with the displayed terms by failing to ensure that their vehicle was properly registered with a valid E-permit on this occasion, having been allowed an adequate consideration period prior to the charge being issued. It is the driver's (rather than a third party's) responsibility to ensure that the terms and conditions of parking are properly complied with. I am satisfied on the evidence provided that the Operator has the authority to issue and enforce PCNs at this site. I am further satisfied as to the location of the contravention, that the correct vehicle has been identified entering and exiting the chargeable area at the times suggested in the images provided and that the correct Appellant is pursued.

I am satisfied that the Operator has proven their prima facie case. Whilst having some sympathy with the Appellant's circumstances, once liability has been established, only the Operator has the discretion to vary or cancel the parking charge based on mitigating circumstances. Accordingly this appeal is dismissed.
"

As your appeal has been dismissed, the Independent Adjudicator has found, upon the evidence provided, that the parking charge was lawfully incurred.

As this appeal has not been resolved in your favour, the IAS is unable to intervene further in this matter.

You should contact the operator within 28 days to make payment of the charge.

Should you continue to contest the charge then you should consider obtaining independent legal advice.

Yours Sincerely,
The Independent Appeals Service



What happens now please  :o
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 26, 2025, 10:46:17 am
Good job I asked and made sure then!
I will cut and paste exactly as written.
Thank you for continued support  :)

Edit
It seems I can't cut and paste, so I will have to type in it manually.
They must do that on purpose. Still that won't stop me!
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on June 26, 2025, 08:51:55 am
Here's one I suggested just 2 days ago!

https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/one-parking-solution-may-baker-club-car-park/msg77843/#msg77843
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 25, 2025, 09:04:09 pm
I’ve done a search on here for ‘IAS’ within the last 30 days

I couldn’t find a mention of a suitable response to them at this stage of the process.

What I did  learn is they are a waste of time.

So am I right to assume rather than go for
1)   SUBMIT YOUR RESPONSE

I choose

2)   REFER THE CASE STRAIGHT TO ARBITRATION

I thought it best to make sure and ask, just in case I’ve missed something


 
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on June 25, 2025, 06:07:48 pm
Just do a search for some very recent cases where there is an IAS operator case response.

Yes, the system is rigged. Even taxi drivers and delivery people get stung in this scam. Unfortunately, most people don't know what we know and get stung.

You are dealing with unregulated private firms and until the government implements the long delayed Act, nothings going to change. Get on to your MP and have them ask questions.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 25, 2025, 12:22:53 pm
Hi. I got this back today

Operator's Prima Facie Case
The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 25/06/2025 11:47:39.

The operator reported that...
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
ANPR/CCTV was used.
The Notice to Keeper was sent on 02/06/2025.
A response was received from the Notice to Keeper.
The ticket was issued on 28/05/2025.
The Notice to Keeper (ANPR) was sent in accordance with PoFA.
The charge is based in Contract.

The operator made the following comments...
The appellant has been captured by ANPR entering and leaving the car park.



The vehicle was at the car park for 10 minutes and 16 seconds, evidence of this can be seen in the 'PCN Information'.



The appellant has parked within the car park and did not register their vehicle.



Signage clearly states, “ALL VEHICLES MUST HOLD A VALID UK CPM E-PERMIT. VEHICLES HOLDING A VALID E-PERMIT FOR AN ALLOCATED BAY OR AREA MUST PARK WITHIN THE CORRESPONDING BAY OR AREA".


Our records indicate that vehicle registration LX59XHA was not registered on the E-Permit system, however other vehicles are registered on the E-Permit system on the date of contravention. This can be seen in the 'PCN INFO'.


The signage is clear within the area and states the terms and conditions for parking. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure they register their vehicle. This is the only way we can determine which vehicles are authorised to be parked within the restricted area.

Signage and Site Plan

Clear and prominent signage is installed throughout the site in accordance with the IPC Code of Practice.

Signage clearly displays the terms and conditions of parking, including the consequences of non-compliance.

A site plan and photographs of signage in situ are available and can be provided to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) upon escalation.

Authority to Operate and Issue PCNs

We operate under a valid, current agreement with the landowner that grants authority to manage parking and issue PCNs in our name.

This agreement complies with Section 14 of the IPC Code of Practice (formerly PPSCoP), including confirmation of the land boundary, signage, terms, and enforcement rights.

A copy of this agreement, with necessary redactions for confidentiality, is available for review by the IAS.

Enforcement System (ANPR or Patrol)

The site uses [ANPR/manual patrol] systems that are regularly tested, calibrated, and maintained to ensure accuracy and reliability.

Time-stamped images or evidence show the exact entry and exit times of the vehicle on the date in question.

The vehicle was on-site beyond any grace period allowed under the IPC Code of Practice.

A Grace Period has been given to allow motorists sufficient time to leave the restricted area once the permitted parking period has expired. As the appellant's vehicle remained within the area after this time, it was parked in breach of the parking restrictions within the area, and subsequently they were issued a parking charge notice.

Notice to Keeper & PoFA Compliance

The Notice to Keeper issued complies fully with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

It includes all mandatory information, was sent within the statutory timeframe, and meets the conditions necessary to pursue the registered keeper for the charge.

Appeals Process and IAS Concerns

The IAS is an accredited independent appeals service, and we follow their decision-making process in full.

While you are entitled to raise concerns about transparency, all assessors are qualified professionals and decisions are based on evidence and compliance with legal and contractual standards.

Case Law Cited

We are aware of VCS v HMRC and ParkingEye v Beavis. Our signage and enforcement procedures are consistent with the principles outlined in those rulings.

Contractual terms are clearly displayed, and the charge issued is proportionate and legally enforceable.

By the appellant parking at the restricted area, they have contractually agreed to pay the parking charge notice.

They are now asking to respond

Response to Operator
The Operator has provided the evidence above which he says proves that you are, on the face of it, responsible for the parking charge in question.

You now have TWO options:

1) SUBMIT YOUR RESPONSE - You can respond to the evidence by making any representations that you consider to be relevant as to the lawfulness of the charge any by uploading any extra photographs or other evidence that you may have. After you submit your response, and the operator doesn't provide any more information you will not have the ability to add to or amend your submission. If the operator provides more information or evidence you will then have another chance to respond. You have until 02/07/2025 23:59 to submit your response if this is the route you wish to take.

- OR -

2) REFER THE CASE STRAIGHT TO ARBITRATION - If you think you do not need to add any more information or evidence, for example if you consider that the information provided is not capable of showing that you are, on the face of it, responsible for the parking charge, then you may choose this option. Neither party will have the opportunity of making more representations and the Adjudicator will decide, on the balance of probabilities, whether you are liable for the parking charge.

Response to Operator:
1000 words left



Submit response
or
Refer The Case Straight To Arbitration

What do I do now?
Thanks in advance  :)

What gets me is they have no photos of the car parked, only it entering and leaving the area. So they could apply this racket to any delivery, taxi or other service.

Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on June 24, 2025, 01:25:33 pm
I wouldn't worry about anything. You are dealing with the IAS, a corrupt and incestuous firm of liars and extortionists. They are paid by the very firms that they are supposed to be adjudicating and the owners of the IAS are the same owners of the IPC, the Accredited Trade Association that operates the Approved Operator Scheme that permits the very same bottom-dwelling, unregulated private firms to issue the PCNs in the first place and to access the DVLA data.

They are not an authority or a legal entity that can do anything. Just accept their terms and get on with it. You have a less than 4% chance of a successful appeal with the IAS, so stop worrying about it.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 24, 2025, 11:12:30 am
I'm in the process of cut and pasting the wording I have been given
It asks if I want to upload any files, in my case I assume no as I'm relying on the wording.
At the next step I have 4 tick boxes and I have to acknowledge all 4 to be able to proceed.
Is it safe to tick all 4 boxes? I assume it is otherwise I can't proceed.

Please read each of the following points carefully and tick the box only where you agree to the statement.

 I confirm that I agree to submit to Arbitration under the Standard Appeals Procedure as defined in the IAS Arbitration (ADR) General Rules and Procedures and The IAS Private Parking Charge Appeals Rules and Procedure (also available on the IAS website (portal.theias.org)). I have read and understood the Rules and agree to them.

 Where I have appointed, or if I later appoint, a representative to deal with matters on my behalf, I accept liability for any representations or misrepresentations made on my behalf.

 The information contained in this appeal form, and any attached evidence, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I provide the information knowing that if it is tendered into evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true and that by registering my details and submitting this appeal I agree to my information being used in accordance with your privacy policy.

 I also confirm that I haven't included any evidence with the appeal and do not wish to do so. I understand that once I have submitted the appeal that I cannot go back and alter, add or take away information or evidence.

IMPORTANT
If you're having trouble uploading evidence you wish to include, please do not continue to submit the appeal. Please contact us for assistance. If you do not upload the evidence at the time of submitting the appeal, it must be considered WITHOUT the evidence.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 23, 2025, 10:20:35 pm
Thank you for this, much appreciated.
I will cut and paste your reply  :)
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on June 23, 2025, 01:28:36 pm
Appeal to the IAS with the following:

Quote
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability for this parking charge and appeal in full.

The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must establish that a contravention occurred, that a valid contract was formed between the operator and the driver, and that it has lawful authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) in its own name. I therefore require the operator to provide the following:

1. Strict proof of clear, prominent, and adequate signage that was in place on the date in question, at the exact location of the alleged contravention. This must include a detailed site plan showing the placement of each sign and legible images of the signs in situ. The operator must demonstrate that signage was visible, legible, and compliant with the IPC Code of Practice that was valid at the time of the alleged contravention, including requirements relating to font size, positioning, and the communication of key terms.

2. Strict proof of a valid, contemporaneous contract or lease flowing from the landowner that authorises the operator to manage parking, issue PCNs, and pursue legal action in its own name. I refer the operator and the IAS assessor to Section 14 of the PPSCoP (Relationship with Landowner), which clearly sets out mandatory minimum requirements that must be evidenced before any parking charge may be issued on controlled land.

In particular, Section 14.1(a)–(j) requires the operator to have in place written confirmation from the landowner which includes:

• the identity of the landowner,
• a boundary map of the land to be managed,
• applicable byelaws,
• the duration and scope of authority granted,
• detailed parking terms and conditions including any specific permissions or exemptions,
• the means of issuing PCNs,
• responsibility for obtaining planning and advertising consents,
• and the operator’s obligations and appeal procedure under the Code.

These requirements are not optional. They are a condition precedent to issuing a PCN and bringing any associated action. Accordingly, I put the operator to strict proof of compliance with the entirety of Section 14 of the PPSCoP. Any document that contains redactions must not obscure the above conditions. The document must also be dated and signed by identifiable persons, with evidence of their authority to act on behalf of the parties to the agreement. The operator must provide an agreement showing clear authorisation from the landowner for this specific site.

3. Strict proof that the enforcement mechanism (e.g. ANPR or manual patrol) is reliable, synchronised, maintained, and calibrated regularly. The operator must prove the vehicle was present for the full duration alleged and not simply momentarily on site, potentially within a permitted consideration or grace period as defined by the PPSCoP.

4. Strict proof that the Notice to Keeper complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), if the operator is attempting to rely on keeper liability. Any failure to comply with the mandatory wording or timelines in Schedule 4 of PoFA renders keeper liability unenforceable.

5. The IAS claims that its assessors are “qualified solicitors or barristers.” Yet there is no way to verify this. Decisions are unsigned, anonymised, and unpublished. There is no transparency, no register of assessors, and no way for a motorist to assess the legal credibility of the individual supposedly adjudicating their appeal. If the person reading this really is legally qualified, they will know that without strict proof of landowner authority (VCS v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186), no claim can succeed. They will also know that clear and prominent signage is a prerequisite for contract formation (ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67), and that keeper liability under PoFA is only available where strict statutory conditions are met.

If the assessor chooses to overlook these legal requirements and accept vague assertions or redacted documents from the operator, that will speak for itself—and lend further weight to the growing concern that this appeals service is neither independent nor genuinely legally qualified.

In short, I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 23, 2025, 01:02:59 pm
Hi. I've received an email from UK Car Park Management.
I'd be very grateful on what to do now

PCN REFERENCE NUMBER: xxx

DATE OF PARKING EVENT : 28th May 2025                                                                                                                                         

PAYMENT DUE DATE:  7th July 2025

TOTAL AMOUNT DUE: £60.00

                                                                                                                                      Dear Mr xxx               

Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice.                     

At UK CPM we consider all appeals on a case-by-case basis. We take each appeal very seriously and thoroughly investigate any evidence that has been provided. We appreciate your circumstances and understand this is not a situation anyone would like to find themselves in; however, these parking conditions have been put in place to ensure fair usage for all motorists and support the needs of our client. After careful consideration, it is unfortunate that I am writing to you today to advise that on this occasion, your appeal has been unsuccessful.

The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been made on the following basis.

Whilst we note the comments and reason for appeal, we can confirm that the vehicle remained on site for 10 minutes with no permit to authorise your stay. We must advise that this car park is run by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras which take a time and date stamped image of the vehicle on entry and exit, measuring the length of time the vehicle remained on site, this information is then cross-referenced with the data from the permit systems. Due to no permit being found, we can confirm that this PCN has been issued correctly.       

Either due to the reason for issue and/or the insufficient evidence provided to support the details of your appeal, we have considered this PCN and found that it does not fall under the category of Annex F the Appeals Charter of the Single Code of Practice. Therefore, if no further evidence is provided, we will deem this to be our final decision.                 

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and therefore you now have two options; either pay or appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) - you cannot do both.

To make payment of the total amount due as shown above, please use one of the following payment options;

Online: www.paymyticket.co.uk
Telephone: 0345 463 4040 (24hr)
Post: Payments & Collections, PO Box 3114, Lancing, BN15 5BR
Alternatively, if you do not agree with your internal appeal outcome and you wish to dispute the matter further, as you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 28 days of this rejection.

The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. If you decide to appeal to the IAS, you will need to visit their website and use your PCN reference and corresponding vehicle registration. All PCN's will be uploaded to the IAS website by the end of this working day.

If you appeal this charge further then you will lose the ability to pay at the reduced rate (if applicable). In the event that your IAS appeal is unsuccessful, the full amount for the PCN will then be payable. If you lodge an appeal with the IAS and then subsequently pay the charge prior to that appeal being determined, then the appeal will be withdrawn, and you will not be given a further opportunity to contest the charge.

If you do not wish to dispute the matter further and payment is not received within 28 days of the date of this correspondence then additional charges may be incurred, for which you may be liable. If the charge continues to remain outstanding, the matter may be later referred for litigation in the County Court which could result in a County Court Judgment being made against you; this may impact on your ability to obtain credit in the future.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on June 06, 2025, 11:25:22 am
It's an invoice from a private firm. It says you owe them a debt. Do you think you owe them a debt? If you do, then pay them.

If you don't, then you don't unless a judge says you do.
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 05, 2025, 07:52:44 pm
You right it doesn't say owner. That's me reading into things that are not there and is why I need guidance.

It does say that I should tell them who was driving if I wasn't, but as you pointed out in your first post I don't have.
I'm learning as I go along, I've already learned it's not a f1ne and not to blab inadvertently about the driver.


Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on June 05, 2025, 06:36:47 pm
It says on the letter than breaching the T&C’s displayed on the noticeboard makes the owner liable.
But you say they can’t do that, so in answer to your question…..

Please show us where it mentions "OWNER". There is no register of owners, is there? As far as civil parking and contract law are concerned, there are only two legal entities... the Keeper (or Hirer) and the Driver.

Whilst the Driver will always be the liable party for an alleged breach of contract, that liability can only be transferred to the Keeper if the creditor has fully complied with all the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted) (PoFA).

It is possible for an individual to be both entities. However, there is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the Driver to an unregulated private parking company and they should never do so.

Hence, the operator does not know the Drivers identity unless the Keeper blabs it to them inadvertently or otherwise by not referring to the driver in the third party. So, no "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that".
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 05, 2025, 06:19:23 pm
Hi b789

It says on the letter than breaching the T&C’s displayed on the noticeboard makes the owner liable.
But you say they can’t do that, so in answer to your question…..

Am I up for the fight?
Yes I am, and I've prepared myself for a long one.

I shall cut and paste what you have said, send it in as an appeal and come back here with their reply.

Cheers
Bob

PS
I promise to not use the word 'fine' again  :)
Title: Re: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: b789 on June 05, 2025, 05:38:11 pm
We really don't need to know who was driving the vehicle and you certainly don't want to be blabbing that fact to the unregulated private parking company. So, whoever is the Keeper, irrespective of who was driving, needs to respond to this Parking Charge Notice (PCN) that has been issued as a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK).

The NtK is not 100% fully compliant with PoFA 2012, and so the known Keeper cannot be liable. Only the unknown (to UKCPM) driver can be liable. The only way they could know the identify of the driver is if the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise.

UKCPM have no idea who the person they may be able to "see in the drivers seat". So what? They have used ANPR to get the vehicle registration and they are not allowed to do anything else with those images.

Also, you owe me £100 for every occurrence of the word "fine" you ca show me on that NtK. No one has been "fined". UKCPM re not an authority of any sort. They are an unregulated, private firm with zero statutory powers and calling their speculative invoice a "fine" only alerts them that they have someone ripe for the picking.

If you believe that tis PCN has been issued unfairly and you are prepared to fight it, then we will advise and as long as you follow the advice, you won't be paying a penny to UKCPM. However, it will be a protracted process  that will take anything from one months to over a year before it is concluded.

No initial appeal will succeed but we go through the motions in order to leave a paper trail. Once the appeals have been rejected, you will start receiving useless debt recovery letters. You can safely ignore anything from a debt collector as they are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

Eventually, you will receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) from a bulk litigator of choice. We will advise on a suitable response. This will lead to them issuing a claim and we will again advise on how to deal with it and a suitable defence.

The odds of this ever getting as far as a hearing in court are incredibly small. The outcome will end up with the claim being struck out or discontinued.

So, are you up for the fight?

For now, you should submit an appeal. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. UKCPM has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. UKCPM have no hope at IAS or court, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Title: UK Car Park Management- Fined while waiting to pick up a passenger
Post by: Bob_A on June 05, 2025, 02:26:06 pm
My wife took my car to pick up someone up from Hope Close, London, SE12 which is a cul-del-sac.
The road has a number of marked parking bays.  My wife used a bay and waited in the car while the passenger  (who lives in Hope Close) came to the car.

On the attached map in red, A is the house and B is where the car waited

Now I’ve received a fine.
In the attached letter you can see my wife in the driver seat on entry and someone in the passenger seat on exit.
There is no photo of her in a parking bay, the 2 photos makes it look like she may have waited in the middle of the road, do they need to provide a photo of her in a parking bay?

I accept that the 10 minutes pick up could’ve been shorter but the passenger had to make the house safe and lock up before leaving. But that wasn't 10 minutes in the bay, some of that as you can see was in the middle of the road

Thanks in advance for any help given

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