Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Kermit on June 04, 2025, 03:48:48 pm

Title: Re: Letter Before Claim - P4Parking - Expired Permit - Edinburgh, Scotland
Post by: b789 on June 04, 2025, 07:44:42 pm
Yes, you are broadly correct in principle, but there are key differences in how this works in Scotland compared to England and Wales.

In England and Wales:

If you lose a County Court claim and a County Court Judgment (CCJ) is issued against you, it will be recorded on the Register of Judgments. However, if you pay it in full within 30 days, it is expunged entirely and never appears on your credit file.

In Scotland:

If you lose a civil case (for example, under the Simple Procedure) and a decree is issued against you by the Sheriff Court, it can be recorded in the Register of Judgments (Scotland). It will not automatically appear on your credit report unless it is formally registered with the Registry Trust. A decree is not usually registered immediately—registration typically happens after a period of non-payment, usually when the pursuer seeks enforcement. If you pay the decree in full promptly, especially within one month, it is unlikely to be registered and therefore it would not impact your credit record.

Summary:

Yes, in practical terms, paying a Scottish decree within 30 days (or before it is registered for enforcement) should prevent any damage to your credit file, similar to the CCJ rule in England and Wales. The main difference is that in Scotland, credit registration is not automatic and often depends on whether the pursuer applies to register the decree with the Registry Trust.
Title: Re: Letter Before Claim - P4Parking - Expired Permit - Edinburgh, Scotland
Post by: Kermit on June 04, 2025, 07:40:02 pm
Hi, thank you for such a thorough and prompt response, I greatly appreciate it.

Regarding the Notice to Keeper (NTK), it's attached as 'FirstClaimsLetter.png' though they've hidden the words 'Notice to Keeper' up in the top-right corner of the letter.

If I may ask a brief question, am I correct in thinking that if I went to court and lost, a negative credit effect would only occur if I failed to pay the decree within 30 days?
Title: Re: Letter Before Claim - P4Parking - Expired Permit - Edinburgh, Scotland
Post by: b789 on June 04, 2025, 07:19:02 pm
Where is the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that should have followed the Notice to Driver (NtD)?

Based on the Notice to Driver (NtD) and the so-called “Letter Before Claim” from P4 Parking (UK) Ltd, and given that this incident occurred in Scotland, here is my assessment of the case so far:

The parking charge notice was issued in Edinburgh, Scotland, on 16 November 2024 for displaying an expired permit. The notice was placed on the windscreen, so it is a Notice to Driver (NtD), not a Notice to Keeper (NtK).

Since the event occurred in Scotland and you are a Scottish resident, the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply. That means the registered keeper cannot be held liable unless they are proven to have been the driver.

The keeper has not responded or identified the driver, so there is no legal basis to pursue them under Scottish law. The letters received by the Keeper, including the most recent so-called “Letter Before Claim” dated 24 May 2025, have all come from P4 Parking and their agents, but none of them are actual court claims. The debt collector letters from TNC can be safely ignored.

The letter before claim does not comply with the requirements for raising a Simple Procedure claim in Scotland. It is not a real legal notice and is designed to pressure the recipient, who they assume to be low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will simply pay up out of ignorance and fear, rather than beginning legal proceedings. No legitimate Simple Procedure form has been served. Therefore, at this stage, the case has not progressed beyond standard, powerless debt collection threats.

I would eat my hat if P4 Parking ever initiated a claim in Scotland. The chances of P4 Parking initiating court proceedings in Scotland are incredibly low for several practical and financial reasons.

First, Scotland does not have an automated bulk claims process like the Civil National Business Centre (CNBC) in England. English parking companies like P4 Parking are used to issuing hundreds or thousands of claims in England and Wales at minimal cost using online batch processes. In Scotland, there is no such system. Every claim must be submitted individually through the Simple Procedure in the Sheriff Court, which is slower, more formal, and requires greater administrative effort.

To initiate a Simple Procedure claim in Scotland, the company would need to:

• Identify and submit the correct court paperwork manually or online.
• Pay a court fee upfront. For claims of up to £300, the fee is currently £19. For claims above £300 and up to £5,000, the fee is £106.
• Serve the paperwork on the defender (you) either through the sheriff officers or by recorded delivery, which also involves time, effort, and further cost.
• Prepare for a possible hearing and potentially travel to a Scottish court, or more likely, appoint a local solicitor or lay representative at a typical, unrecoverable cost of at least £150-£300.

In this case, the original parking charge is £100. The extra £70 “admin fee” they are trying to claim would not be permitted by a Scottish Sheriff. Scottish courts generally do not allow inflated add-ons that are not a genuine pre-estimate of loss or part of a properly incorporated contract. The maximum they could realistically recover would be close to the original £100 charge, more likely less, even assuming they were successful, if the court deems that the terms and signage were unclear, the permit issue was minor, or that the driver was not properly notified.

Moreover, there is no keeper liability in Scotland. That means unless they can prove who the driver was (which they cannot, since you have not identified them), they are very unlikely to succeed in any claim. English companies pursuing Scottish keepers must overcome this evidential barrier, or risk their claim being dismissed early.

Taking all this into account, the cost of pursuing a claim (both in money and effort) far outweighs the amount they could possibly recover, and their chances of success are less than slim. I don't know of any English, unregulated private parking companies in this situation that have actually pursued claims in Scotland at all. Instead, they rely on intimidating letters from debt collectors to scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear. This is why the threat of legal action in such cases is hollow, and actual court action in Scotland by these firms is as rare as hens teeth.

So, at this stage, you should do nothing. Do not respond to P4 Parking, and certainly do not contact any powerless debt collection agents acting on their behalf. Keep all correspondence in a safe place, but there is no need to take any action unless you receive official court papers from the Scottish Sheriff Court—which is exceedingly unlikely. If that ever happens (and I doubt it will), let us know immediately and we’ll help you deal with it. Until then, treat this for what it is: empty intimidation designed to frighten people into paying a charge they have no legal obligation to settle.
Title: Re: Letter Before Claim - P4Parking - Expired Permit - Edinburgh, Scotland
Post by: Kermit on June 04, 2025, 03:50:07 pm
Further evidence attached


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Letter Before Claim - P4Parking - Expired Permit - Edinburgh, Scotland
Post by: Kermit on June 04, 2025, 03:48:48 pm
Hi, circumstances are as follows:

Driver entered a private car park in Edinburgh (Scotland) on 2024-11-16, parked for a few hours, and returned to a PCN on the windscreen with contravention reason given as: 'Expired Permit on Display'. Driver was using the permit of a friend who hadn't received a newer one from their landlord. Driver's friend has since moved to a different location.

I, the keeper of the car (residing in Scotland), have received numerous letters through the post (see attached) about this but have not contacted the claimant in any way.

I received a 'Letter before Claim' today and am looking for advice on how to proceed.

Evidence is attached containing the original PCN and all further letters received.

Any help is greatly appreciated

[attachment deleted by admin]