Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: spaceless on June 03, 2025, 02:53:39 pm

Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on September 03, 2025, 12:02:36 pm
Quote
Which but of my signature did you miss?

Pretty much all of it! Sorry  :)
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on September 03, 2025, 11:42:41 am
This is probably already on your radar, but in researching Excel v. Wilkinson I came across this government consultation with the public that closes in two days, you might be interested: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/private-parking-code-of-practice

Which but of my signature did you miss?
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on September 03, 2025, 11:18:17 am
This is amazing, thank you! I've now sent it.

This is probably already on your radar, but in researching Excel v. Wilkinson I came across this government consultation with the public that closes in two days, you might be interested: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/private-parking-code-of-practice
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on September 03, 2025, 10:10:52 am
You can email them back with this:

Quote
Subject: Your defective pre-action response – landowner authority, £70 uplifts, and PAPDC non-compliance

Dear Sirs,

Your assertion that I have no right to inspect your client’s landowner authority is misconceived. Standing is a threshold issue. If your client lacks authority from the landholder to contract with motorists and/or to litigate in its own name, there is no cause of action. The Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct (PD-PAC) requires disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute before proceedings (para 6(c)). Your client’s landholder authority (or a complete chain of authority) is plainly such a document. Please provide it (commercial terms may be redacted but the parties, site plan/boundary, dates, and rights to issue charges and litigate must be visible).

For the avoidance of doubt, the sector’s Private Parking Single Code of Practice (v1.1, 17 Feb 2025) itself requires written confirmation from the landowner covering the items listed at clause 14.1(a)–(j) (identity, site boundary, byelaws, permission granted, T&Cs to be applied, method of issue, etc.). Your client says it has this; then it is a key document it relies upon and should be disclosed pre-action.

PoFA: you’ve cited the wrong Schedule and the wrong effect. You refer to “Schedule 8” of PoFA. The relevant provisions are Schedule 4, not 8. If you intend to pursue the keeper, please identify the specific paragraphs of Schedule 4 said to be satisfied for each PCN and confirm whether you rely on para 8 or para 9. Note that para 4(5) limits any keeper recovery to the amount specified in the Notice to Keeper. Any attempt to add fixed “debt recovery” sums to a keeper claim would be contrary to statute.

You rely on trade-body codes to justify an extra £70 per PCN. Even your own sector Code only says that “where a Parking Charge becomes overdue a sum of up to £70 may be added” (cl. 8.4.3). That is not law, does not bind the court, and cannot displace PoFA Sch 4 para 4(5) or the PD-PAC/CPR cost-shifting regime. Numerous County Court decisions (including the often-cited Excel v Wilkinson) have treated these add-ons as an abuse/double recovery and struck them out. My position is that no £70 uplifts are recoverable, still less three of them in one batch. If you disagree, please provide your authorities now.

For completeness, ParkingEye v Beavis did not grant a roving licence to pile on unregulated “debt recovery” fees in addition to the headline parking charge. If you intend to rely on Beavis, identify the passages you say justify your uplifts.

Your emails alternately assert a single outstanding balance of £170 and a demand of £510. If you allege three PCNs of £100 each, identify each PCN by number, date/time, location, alleged breach, and state precisely how you contend the total is calculated PCN-by-PCN. A coherent statement of case and key documents are required by PAPDC paras 5.1–5.2 within 30 days of request. You have not complied.

Documents required within 30 days (no portals)
Provide directly (by email/post), not via a login portal:

a) Landowner agreement/chain of authority (as above).
b) Full signage suite and a site plan showing sign and ANPR locations at the material time.
c) Unaltered NtKs for each PCN you rely on, with the exact PoFA route stated.
d) ANPR stills and event logs for each PCN.
e) DVLA request dates/results and any soft-trace/address-verification undertaken before escalation.
f) A PCN-by-PCN breakdown to the penny showing how you reach the demanded sum.

The PAPDC requires you to provide the documents or explain unavailability within 30 days; if you provide them, you must then allow a further 30 days before issuing. Proceeding sooner will be opposed as non-compliant.

If you issue proceedings without first complying with PAPDC/PD-PAC by giving a coherent explanation and the key documents above, I will report your conduct to the SRA for apparent breaches of Principle 1 (rule of law), Principle 2 (integrity) and Principle 5 (proper standard of service).

Please confirm, within 7 days, that you will: (i) send the documents requested in §5 within 30 days; and (ii) refrain from issuing any claim until at least 30 days after you have complied, as required by PAPDC 4.2/5.2. Otherwise, any claim will be met with an immediate application to stay for non-compliance (with costs) and an application under CPR 3.4(2) to strike out any unrecoverable add-ons.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on September 03, 2025, 07:41:13 am
Do you think I should reply to this, or just sit tight?
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on August 29, 2025, 04:43:59 pm
Hi! I received this reply from Moorside today.

They have attached (i) the original NTKs (ii) images of the vehicle entering and leaving the car park - same ones as are shown in the NTKs and (iii) certificates of postage for each NTK. Let me know if you want me to reattach any of these.

---

We write in relation to the above matter.

Please see the attatched and the below.

1. An explanation of the cause of action

Our client has instructed us to collect the outstanding balance of £170.00 in relation to an unpaid Parking Charge Notice.

2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper

Please see the attached Notice to Keeper.

3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012

We are instructed that a compliant PCN was sent. In accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 8 ( "A notice sent by post is to be presumed... to have been delivered (and so “given”... on the second working day after the day on which it is posted. 

4. What the details of the claim are; for how long it is claimed the vehicle was parked, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated

The PCN was issued for "Present without payment having been made for the duration of the vehicles stay" see the attatched.

5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.

The Terms and Conditions on which Alliance Parking UK Limited services are provided are clearly displayed throughout the private land. Please be advised that there are several signs within this location displaying the terms and conditions,  As you breached the terms and conditions of the car park, this PCN was correctly issued. Considering the evidence, we are satisfied that the PCN has been issued in line with industry standards and is compliant with the International Parking Community’s (IPC) code of practice. The signage of the car park also complies with the International Parking Community’s Code of Practice.

By entering and parking the vehicle on our client's private land, you agreed to enter into a contract with our client and to be bound by the terms and conditions of that contract. The terms and conditions were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent places within the car park. Due to your failure to comply with the terms and conditions, our client has issued the PCN.

6. If the claim is for a contractual breach, photographs showing the vehicle was parked in contravention of said contract.

Please see the attached images.

7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.

N/A

8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).

It is unclear why you would need to inspect any agreement between our client and the landowner as you are not party to that agreement, not could it aid your dispute or any potential defence.

9. A plan showing where any signs were displayed

We have requested this and will send in due course.

10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added.

Please be advised that the original amount of the PCN was £100.00. As outlined in the notice, a reduced amount of £60.00 would have been accepted as full and final settlement if payment had been received within 14 days from the date of issue.

Unfortunately, as no payment was received within that time frame, the opportunity to pay the reduced amount has now expired. As a result of continued non-payment and additional charges, the balance has increased and now stands at £170.00.

11. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this net or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

The additional charge which has been levied on your Parking Charge of £70 is the amount set out in both the British Parking Association and International Parking Community Codes of Practice as the amount which may be added to a Parking Charge when a Parking Charge remains unpaid and when further recovery is required. Our Client is a member of the International Parking Community which is a government approved Accredited Trade Association (ATA) for Private Parking. Our Client adheres to the ATA’s Code of Practice. The £70 does not represent the cost of recovery but is a reasonable amount in relation to the Parking Charge amount, in order to encourage early payment of the Parking Charge without the need for debt recovery. It is a fair amount set by our Client’s government-approved Accredited Trade Association Code of Practice. There are however also costs incurred by our client in relation to debt recovery services.

12. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

By entering and parking the vehicle on our client's private land, you agreed to enter into a contract with our client and to be bound by the terms and conditions of that contract. The terms and conditions were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent places within the car park. Due to your failure to comply with the terms and conditions, our client has issued the PCN therefore if we are instructed to issue a claim the reason would be for Unpaid parking charges/ breach of contract.

 

We ask that you make the full payment of £510.00 within 7 days of receipt of this email.

 

 

You can make payment in the following ways: 

Contact us on 0330 822 9950 (our opening times are Monday- Friday 9:00- 17:00);
portal.moorsidelegal.co.uk - Login to our portal
https://pay.moorside.legal - Quick Pay
 

 

If you fail to respond or make payment, we may be instructed by our client to issue legal proceedings against you. This will incur further costs and fees that will be added to the outstanding balance. You may wish to seek independent legal advice. 

 

Please note that we will not be addressing any further correspondence related to disputes of the same nature, as we have provided you with a response.

 

Yours sincerely,

Moorside Legal
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on August 22, 2025, 04:24:46 pm
Ok, it sounds like it is worth defending then. I'll post back if and when I hear from Moorside.

Thanks again and have a great day!
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on August 22, 2025, 01:11:57 pm
Most judges will not allow the fake added £70/PCN. At the moment, they are claiming 3 x £100 plus 3 x £70 for a total of £510. Worst case scenario if your defence is not accepted by the judge will be approx, £300 plus their fixed fee of £35 for the claim application, £50 legal fees and their £27 hearing fee. So, around £410 in this case.

You can guarantee that the incompetents at Moorside will fail to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) which means that you can request strike out for failing to adequately state a cause of action.
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on August 22, 2025, 09:43:16 am
Thanks so much for the explanation.


Re. vehicle address - noted. The vehicle has long since passed out of our ownership so presumably no need to do anything now.

Re. Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i), I think that invitation is included in the NTKs, it's just on page 2 (under 'Transferring liability for this charge'). Do you agree?

Re. Paragraph 9(2)(f), so from what I understand the NTKs should have explicitly mentioned the Schedule 4 when asserting their right to recovery. The fact that they didn't makes the NTK fail the PoFA.

With all that in mind, it sounds like we would need to rely on that last point for our defence. In your experience, how effective is such a defence likely to be? (Your first post, before you saw the NTKs, said that the possibility of defending it was 'remote'.)

Final question: if we do stand our ground and defend it, do you have any idea what the likely worst case scenario is, assuming we comply with any court orders? I'm not clear how much more money we stand to lose if the court doesn't rule in our favour.

Thanks again for your help, it is so kind!
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on August 21, 2025, 06:31:56 pm
1. Only parking companies who are members of either the BPA or IPC can access DVLA Keeper data. Your drivers licence has nothing to do with who a vehicle is registered to. The parking companies can only make a single request for DVLA Keeper data as long as they have "reasonable cause". If your V5C was not up to date at the time they made the request, then they can't go back later and request it again.

It is an offence not to keep your V5C up to date, punishable by a real fine of up to £1,000. So, get it updated ASAP and it can easily be done online.

2. The Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(f) because it does not include the mandatory condition that the right to recover from the keeper only applies “if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met.” This clause is essential. Its omission means the notice falsely asserts an unconditional right to pursue the keeper, which is legally incorrect. That alone invalidates keeper liability.

It also fails to comply with Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i), which requires the notice to invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charge if the creditor does not know both the name and current address for service of the driver. The notice does not contain any such invitation. It refers only to the driver being liable and threatens enforcement action, but it never invites the keeper to pay.

If any single element is not complaint then it fails PoFA and there can be no Keeper liability, full stop. It is a binary matter. Just as someone cannot be partially or even mostly pregnant, an NtK canot be partially or even mostly compliant. It either is or it isn't. The NtKs you have shown us aren't.
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on August 21, 2025, 06:04:28 pm
Follow up:

I read through your reply in a bit more detail and had a few questions, hope you don't mind me asking:

1. My theory now is that we updated the driving licence with the DVLA but not the vehicle log book. That would explain the address discrepancy. From what I understand, parking companies should indeed rely on the the vehicle log book when issuing NTKs, right? (If I've got that wrong, do you know where it's specified otherwise?)

2. I read Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act. Would you mind explaining how their original NTKs are noncompliant? From what I understand from that Act, the whole point is it allows them to pursue the keeper if they can't identify the driver.

I don't want to give into bullying, but I would rather not get into a legal battle if I am not on solid legal ground!

Thanks again so much for your help, I appreciate it so much.
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on August 21, 2025, 10:37:45 am
Thank you so much!

I have emailed that reply today.
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on August 20, 2025, 05:46:45 pm
Their response is a textbook example of procedural evasion and empty assertion. It fails to cure the defects you identified in your 8 August email and continues to flout the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims. Respond by return email with:

Quote
Subject: Your defective response dated 20 August 2025 – Failure to comply with Pre-Action Protocol

Dear Sirs,

Your response dated 20 August 2025 is noted. It fails to address the deficiencies outlined in my letter of 8 August and remains non-compliant with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims and the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

Your vague reference to an online portal is not sufficient. The Protocol requires that documents be provided directly and clearly—not buried behind login credentials or third-party platforms. You have failed to supply:

• Copies of the original Notices to Keeper
• Photographic evidence of signage at the material time
• The full contractual terms allegedly breached
• Evidence of your client’s authority from the landowner
• A breakdown of the £510 claimed, including the legal basis for the £70 uplift

Your attempt to justify the £70 charge by citing trade association CoPs is legally irrelevant. These codes do not override statutory requirements or judicial precedent. The Supreme Court in ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 did not endorse arbitrary uplifts, and your client’s Notices to Keeper fail to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As the driver has not been identified, your client has no lawful basis to pursue the keeper.

Your continued failure to provide the required documents and information is obstructive and unreasonable. If proceedings are issued without full compliance, I will apply to strike out the claim under CPR 3.4(2) and seek costs under CPR 27.14(2)(g). I will also invite the court to stay the claim pending proper disclosure and will rely on Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green, Daejan Investments Ltd v The Park West Club Ltd, and Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Ltd.

Finally, your conduct raises serious concerns under the SRA Principles, particularly Principles 1 (upholding the rule of law), 2 (acting with integrity), and 5 (providing a proper standard of service). If you persist in issuing defective Letters of Claim or proceed to litigation without remedying these failures, I will refer this matter to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on August 20, 2025, 05:32:16 pm
I have now received the following reply (by email, dated Mon, 18 Aug 2025 at 15:35)

Quote

We write in relation to the above matter.


Please log on to our online portal to see documentation requested.


Our answers to your questions are as follows:


The additional charge which has been levied on your Parking Charge of £70  is the amount set out in both the British Parking Association and International Parking Community Codes of Practice as the amount which may be added to a Parking Charge when a Parking Charge remains unpaid and when further recovery is required. Our Client is a member of the BPA & IPC which is a government approved Accredited Trade Association (ATA) for Private Parking. Our Client adheres to the ATA’s Code of Practice. The £70 does not represent the cost of recovery but is a reasonable amount in relation to the Parking Charge amount, in order to encourage early payment of the Parking Charge without the need for debt recovery. It is a fair amount set by our Client’s government-approved Accredited Trade Association Code of Practice. There are however also costs incurred by our client in relation to debt recovery services.



By entering and parking the vehicle on our client's private land, you agreed to enter into a contract with our client and to be bound by the terms and conditions of that contract. The terms and conditions were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent places within the car park. Due to your failure to comply with the terms and conditions, our client has issued the PCN therefore if we are instructed to issue a claim the reason would be for Unpaid parking charges/ breach of contract.



We ask that you make the full payment of £510.00 within 7 days of receipt of this email.



You can make payment in the following ways: 



Contact us on 0330 822 9950 (our opening times are Monday- Friday 9:00- 17:00);

portal.moorsidelegal.co.uk - Login to our portal

https://pay.moorside.legal - Quick Pay


If you fail to respond or make payment, we may be instructed by our client to issue legal proceedings against you. This will incur further costs and fees that will be added to the outstanding balance. You may wish to seek independent legal advice. 


Yours sincerely,


Moorside Legal

This sounds like a standard response - in particular, they don't seem to have engaged with the question of having sent the NTKs to the wrong address.

Any advice about options about how to proceed, warmly welcomed!
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on August 08, 2025, 05:02:15 pm
My bad... it is indeed 'help' not 'info' @morsidelegal.co.uk
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on August 08, 2025, 04:05:40 pm
Wow, thank you so much for drafting that! :D

I've sent it, though note that the email info@moorsidelegal.co.uk doesn't seem to exist any more (it was rejected by their server).

I resent it instead to help@moorsidelegal.co.uk which I found on moneysavingexpert.com.
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on August 07, 2025, 06:02:16 pm
Respond to the LoC in an email addressed to info@moorsidelegal.co.uk and CC yourself:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim dated 29 July 2025 contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of the evidence upon which your client purports to rely. It is therefore in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, the relevant Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct, and basic standards of pre-litigation transparency.
As a firm regulated by the SRA, it is reasonable to expect that you are familiar with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct. These rules exist to facilitate informed and proportionate resolution, not as a procedural afterthought.

Your client alleges a breach of contract yet refuses to provide the contract, the terms allegedly breached, or any explanation of how the sum of £510 is calculated. The Civil Procedure Rules and associated protocols are clear: before commencing proceedings, parties should have exchanged sufficient information to understand each other’s position. This plainly includes disclosure of the key documents upon which your client relies.

I had no knowledge of these alleged charges until contacted by Trace Debt Recovery in April 2025. I have since obtained evidence from the DVLA confirming that I updated my keeper address in May 2021. Your client requested DVLA data after this date but relied on the vehicle record, not the most up-to-date information. Your client’s failure to properly serve the original notices is therefore not my fault, and I deny having received them at the time.

Moreover, the Notices to Keeper your client eventually disclosed do not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. They fail to include the statutory wording required by Schedule 4 and are therefore incapable of creating keeper liability. As the driver has not been identified, your client has no cause of action against me.

I require your client to comply with its obligations under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims by providing the following:

1. A copy of the original Notices to Keeper that purport to create liability

2. A copy of the contract allegedly entered into, in the form of contemporaneous photographs of the signage at the material time and location

3. The precise terms and conditions that your client alleges were breached

4. The contract or other evidence establishing your client’s authority from the landowner to operate and issue PCNs at the site

5. A full breakdown of the amount claimed, including whether the £70 “debt recovery” uplift is contractual, includes VAT, and whether the sum is claimed as consideration or damages

Until this information is provided, I am unable to respond substantively. If your client proceeds to issue a claim without first providing the required documents and information, I will invite the court to stay the proceedings and to impose sanctions for failure to comply with the Protocol. I will rely on the decisions in Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Ltd v The Park West Club Ltd [2003] EWHC 2872 (TCC), and Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Ltd & Peter Dann Ltd [2007] EWHC 855 (TCC).

Any claim issued now will be met with a robust defence and an application to strike it out as an abuse of process under CPR 3.4(2). I will also ask the court to consider a costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) due to unreasonable conduct.

If you continue to send defective Letters of Claim or proceed with litigation without rectifying the defects outlined above, I reserve the right to refer this matter to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for investigation of potential breaches of SRA Principles 1, 2 and 5.

Yours faithfully,

[Your full name]
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on August 07, 2025, 02:10:57 pm
I have today received the Letter Before Claim (attached).

I also received the results from two subject access requests I made to the DVLA, attached.

The first one shows that Alliance Parking requested the address on three occasions, 30/6/2021, 1/7/2021 and 19/7/2021.

I am not sure how to interpret the second one, but I believe that it shows that the *vehicle address* were at the old address until 2022, but that the *driver address* did change to the correct address on 20/5/2021.

So we must have contacted the DVLA with our new address *before* the notice to keepers were issued. The problem was that for some reason the records were not updated consistently.

In summary: we took reasonable steps to update the DVLA of our address, but the operator was given the wrong address. I wonder if this means the Notice to Keepers are invalid, what do you think?



Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on June 04, 2025, 04:37:40 pm
If you have a copy of the updated V5C, then it says on it when it was updated on both the second and third pages:

(https://i.imgur.com/arFKwbq.jpeg)
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on June 04, 2025, 04:03:18 pm
Quote
I need to know whether the wording you have shown us in your offer to part pay is the EXACT wording you used or have you paraphrased any of it?  Was that correspondence to the parking company or to the useless debt collector?

Yes, it's the exact wording, and it was correspondence to the debt collector.

Quote
However, if there has been no instance where the Keeper has said "I did this or that"...

Other than what is said in the offer I've shared, nowhere else does it say anything about what we may or may not have done.

Quote
It is the Keepers responsibility to keep their V5C address up to date.

I'm aware of that, yes. I think we would have changed the address in the V5C around that time (presumably after the first notice though) but it seems impossible to find out when exactly we changed it. I would have thought if it were sent to the old address once we had changed it, then the NTK would be invalid, right?

Quote
Right now, there is nothing more you can do except to wait and see if/when they issue a Letter of Claim (LoC).

Ok, thanks!
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on June 04, 2025, 03:00:58 pm
It doesn't work that way when it coms to acquiring the Keepers data from the DVLA. It is the Keepers responsibility to keep their V5C address up to date. In fact, not updating it in a timely manner could land you with up to a £1,000 fine, should they decide to actually do anything about it.

The parking company cannot just dip into the DVLA database whenever they want to. They can only request the Keepers data once and that will usually be a few days after the date of the alleged contravention.

They can only pursue the Keeper for the charge if they have fully complied with all the requirements of PoFA 2012, which is why we advise everyone to never reveal the drivers identity. The only way they can identify the driver is if the Keeper tells them who it is, inadvertently or otherwise. If their PCN does not comply with all the requirements of PoFA, then they cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known Keeper.

Looking at the Notices to Keeper (NtK) you have shown us, they are not relying on the provisions of PoFA to hold the Keeper liable as they have not used the necessary statutory wording and the third notice was not even given within the relevant period, even if they had used the correct wording.

I need to know whether the wording you have shown us in your offer to part pay is the EXACT wording you used or have you paraphrased any of it? Was that correspondence to the parking company or to the useless debt collector?

You referred to "we" as in "we did this or that", rather than simply referring to the driver in the third person with "the driver did this and that". However, if there has been no instance where the Keeper has said "I did this or that", then there is a remote chance that you can defend this on the basis that the actual driver has not been identified and the Keeper cannot be liable as the operator has not relied on the provisions of PoFA to transfer liability form the unknown driver to the known Keeper, especially if that was to the debt collector and not to the parking operator.

So, we need to know the EXACT wording you used in any communication with the operator.

Luckily, you DDED "This offer should not be interpreted as an admission of liability." although, ideally the whole letter should have been headed with "WITHOUT PREJUDICE". At court, the judge has do decide on the facts and on the balance of probabilities and it may be probably that you admitted liability with your offer.

Right now, there is nothing more you can do except to wait and see if/when they issue a Letter of Claim (LoC). Any debt recovery letters can be safely ignored as they can only persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on June 04, 2025, 01:15:56 pm
Thanks so much for your replies, I really appreciate it!

Quote
First you need to send a Data rectification notice to the DPO of Alliance parking.

Noted, I have now done that.

Quote
Post up the copies of the PCNs you received.

Attached.

Quote
So, your chances of getting this cancelled or ignored are now much lower than they would have been if you had handled it differently from the start.

Hmm, ok. Do people ever successfully defend the size of the claim? E.g. could the court stipulate that I pay the initial amount (given that I've acted in good faith and responded as soon as I became aware of the PCN) and let the parking company pick up the court costs?

I'm also interested if there is any way of finding out from the DVLA the address history on the car. We changed address during the period of the NTKs and they may have neglected to get an updated address from the DVLA, e.g. when sending out the final one.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: b789 on June 03, 2025, 09:28:15 pm
You’ve gone about this the wrong way. By offering to settle the matter and explaining that you probably didn’t realise you needed to pay, you’ve weakened your position. It gives the impression that you accept that the charges were valid, even if you didn’t mean to say that directly. That makes it harder to argue later that you’re not liable at all.

The bigger problem is the amount. Because this claim is for more than £500, it’s much more likely that the parking company will take it to court and won’t back down later. If they win, they can enforce the judgment through the High Court, which makes it easier for them to recover the money — including using bailiffs if needed. This isn’t a small claim they’re likely to forget about.

So, your chances of getting this cancelled or ignored are now much lower than they would have been if you had handled it differently from the start.

That said, there’s still a remote chance you could succeed in defending it, depending on how the parking company handled the notices and whether they followed the legal requirements properly. For example, if they didn’t serve the original notices correctly or can’t show that a proper contract was formed, a judge might still rule in your favour. But that’s not guaranteed, and it will take careful preparation and probably a strong, well-argued defence.

In short, this is not hopeless, but it’s an uphill battle now. You need to take it seriously, keep a close eye on any letters from them, and be ready to defend a court claim properly if it comes.
Title: Re: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: RichardW on June 03, 2025, 03:43:39 pm
First you need to send a Data rectification notice to the DPO of Alliance parking, instructing them to update their records with your current address for service and to erase your old address. The highlighted words are there for a reason, so use them.  It's likely they hold your old address, and this is a sure way of ending up with a CCJ by default you know nothing about.

Ignore anything from Trace - they are powerless.

Post up the copies of the PCNs you received.  If you receive a Letter of Claim (will give 30 days to pay) come back and post it here - this should be replied to.  A court claim will likely follow, but as long as defended will often be discontinued before it gets to the actual hearing.  If you get one of these, def come back for advice before responding to it, but be aware of deadlines.
Title: Notice to keeper sent to old address, now in debt recovery
Post by: spaceless on June 03, 2025, 02:53:39 pm
Hi, thanks in advance to anyone who is able to consider this!

Brief summary: I am being asked for £510 for failure to pay for parking on three successive occasions nearly four years ago. We didn't receive the original NTKs because they were sent to the wrong address, possibly due to us moving house around that period and there being a time lag for us telling the DVLA of our new address. I immediately offered to pay £60 for each ticket plus £20 extra, but they are unwilling to negotiate.

What are my options?

More details

I received three letters from Trace Debt Recovery (all dated 25 Apr 2025) on behalf of Alliance Parking, for three parking charges back in 26, 27 June / 4 July 2021 (just under 4 years ago). They total £490.  This is the first I heard about them.

I emailed the debt recovery agency immediately on receipt of the letters to request copies of the Notice to Keepers: they were sent to an address we had recently moved out from, and although we left a forwarding address these were not forwarded. They were dated 1, 2 and 20 July 2021. Each NTK asks for £60 / £100 / £160 depending on when it's paid. (Note that one of the debt recovery letters demands £170, not £160 - it doesn't explain why.)

It is possible that at least for the original Notice to Keepers, we had not yet updated the DVLA of our new address. We were in temporary accommodation, so perhaps we delayed updating it until we had a permanent address - it's too long ago to remember. It doesn't seem to be possible to obtain a history of registered addresses from the DVLA. Note also we no longer own the car.

Along with providing the original Notice to Keepers, Trace Debt Recovery included a covering letter dated 19 May 2025 demanding a total of £510 (I don't know where this number comes from - the total of the three letters is £490).

I decided to try to settle the matter by sending this email on 20 May:

Quote
Thank you for sending the notice to keepers for these three cases.

We dispute your invoiced amount of £510, which we do not feel is proportionate, but we are willing to make a payment of £200 in full and final settlement for all three cases.

We never received the Notice to Keepers until you emailed them yesterday. This is because we were no longer resident at that address: we moved out on 23rd March 2021, and into temporary accommodation until the 14th July 2021. We left a forwarding address, but the new occupants of <address> did not forward us our post. We therefore only found out about the charges several years later. I have not yet been able to find details of the DVLA address history over that time (which presumably you used to contact us), but we do admit it is possible we did not notify the DVLA of our change of address until after you sent the notice to keepers, at least for the first two.

Several years have passed since we entered your car park so it is difficult to remember what happened, but given that we have records of paying for parking at many beaches in the area over that period of time, and we never paid at your car park, we probably did not realise we needed to pay. From the many complaints about the car park on trip advisor (https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g8682193-d6818777-Reviews-Trevone_Bay_Beach-Trevone_Padstow_Cornwall_England.html), it seems we are not the only ones.

However, in the interests of settling the matter we are willing to pay the original charges listed on the notice to keepers, of £60 each - as if we had paid them on receipt of the original Notice to Keepers. We feel this is a fair amount, given that we have responded promptly to your correspondence as soon as we received it.

We also acknowledge the possibility of a delay in updating the DVLA address history, which may have caused you additional costs. We offer a further £20 to cover the cost of your correspondence dated 25 April, and the recent email.

This comes to £60 x 3 + £20 = £200.

This offer should not be interpreted as an admission of liability.

Please let us know if you accept the offer within 14 days, after which time it will expire.

Yours faithfully,

We received this reply:

Quote
Good morning,

Thankyou for your correspondence.

We are unable to reduce the PCNs at this stage.

Regards,

Customer service

It also says in their covering letter that "We will not enter into any further correspondence regarding this matter." so I have not responded since.

I feel I have acted in good faith throughout, and don't want to give into bullying. Could anyone advise me of my options?