Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: beatthecase on May 25, 2025, 12:12:29 pm

Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on September 06, 2025, 09:17:25 pm
Filed.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on September 05, 2025, 03:59:03 pm
Has the Enforcement Notice been challenged?

Just had this back from the council:

(https://i.imgur.com/eyOsXMe.png)

https://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/tma-part-6-list-of-approved-devices/approved-device-certifications-enfield.zip

It is. But, we still fight it.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on September 05, 2025, 03:45:47 pm
Just prodding myself as a reminder.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on September 04, 2025, 09:40:18 pm
Next on my list.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: mickR on September 04, 2025, 12:27:30 pm
the photos are of signs that are prior to a junction with a road on the right, kingsfield way, and prior to 2 breaks in the bus lane for entrances on the left both prior the service road that starts at No 73, to the left of the OPs car as seen in the council video. there is no such sign at the start of the service road out side No 73 where the contravention is alledged. the pole is there but no sign, been like that for a few years.
if you turned right out of kingsfield in the direction of the OPs travel you would not pass a bus lane sign.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on September 02, 2025, 08:08:29 pm
@beatthecase I say Tribunal time. I'll PM you my details. Failure to consider for starters. I have not lost a bus lane case in  the last 4 years and, if I lose, I will pay half.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on September 02, 2025, 06:20:38 pm
Please post a copy of what you wrote in your reps.

Hi,

Please see below

(https://i.imgur.com/LF44M6p.png)
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: John U.K. on September 02, 2025, 01:27:58 pm
Please post a copy of what you wrote in your reps.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on September 02, 2025, 09:50:54 am
Is there something wrong?
That link identifies the CCTV camera, not the location of any signs. The point is that we now know the council must provide a certificate for a SEA RoadFlow Flexi Camera, if they provide a certificate for any other sort of camera then we can have the evidence thrown out as inadmissible.

Hi All,

I have a reply from the council regarding the appeal I made a month ago, please see below.

Sorry for the late submission, I was on holiday.

(https://i.imgur.com/sPqsBwp.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/tCX9axz.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/DeOcluv.jpeg)

Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: cp8759 on August 03, 2025, 11:10:02 pm
Is there something wrong?
That link identifies the CCTV camera, not the location of any signs. The point is that we now know the council must provide a certificate for a SEA RoadFlow Flexi Camera, if they provide a certificate for any other sort of camera then we can have the evidence thrown out as inadmissible.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on August 03, 2025, 09:11:59 pm
I don't understand, I went onto the link and still shows no sign?
What link?

The link in the image you sent? It shows the camera at the end of the bus lane but there is no signage?

Is there something wrong?

Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: cp8759 on August 03, 2025, 08:55:58 pm
I don't understand, I went onto the link and still shows no sign?
What link?
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on August 03, 2025, 07:05:27 pm
Has the Enforcement Notice been challenged?

Just had this back from the council:

[img width=915.5 height=236]https://i.imgur.com/eyOsXMe.png[/img]

Hi,

Yes I have challenged it based on the information Hippocrates gave me.

I don't understand, I went onto the link and still shows no sign?

Thanks
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: cp8759 on August 03, 2025, 03:30:03 pm
Has the Enforcement Notice been challenged?

Just had this back from the council:

(https://i.imgur.com/eyOsXMe.png)
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on July 15, 2025, 03:32:17 pm
1. I retract my previous informal challenge.

2. The video shows no evidence of my vehicle allegedly passing any upright warning signage at all. Therefore, the contravention did not occur.

3. The 1996 Act allows me to use "one or other grounds". So, your EN limits to one.

4. The date of service is not necessarily the deemed date of delivery, Again, I refer you to the law in this regard.

Considering the above, please cancel both documents.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on July 15, 2025, 03:21:40 pm
Let me think. cp8759 won a case re this council a few months back due to messed up evidence and an incredible refusal to attend, which they did in the end!
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on July 15, 2025, 02:25:24 pm
Reposting in case missed.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on July 15, 2025, 01:13:29 am
(https://i.imgur.com/pSYoy0F.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZfJ7R0L.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/kuMFiOr.jpeg)
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on July 15, 2025, 01:00:05 am
What was your challenge? When seen, I suggest waiting for the Enforcement Notice and I will draft a detailed one for you bases on the evidence, or lack of it.

When the time comes, I suggest this:

1. I retract my previous informal challenge.

2. The video shows no evidence of my vehicle allegedly passing any upright warning signage at all. Therefore, the contravention did not occur.

3. Your website does not contain any of the statutory grounds and, indeed, when entering any of them it states these are unavailable.

In light of the above.

Please cancel

Point 3 may be debatable but I would use it at this stage.  More may be added later when the EN is seen.

Hi,

I hope all is well

Please find attached the EN sent. Sorry I have been away on holiday and received this late.

(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdRpcRc7.jpeg&hash=db0fbf8262dac9297f65201b3caee24b4fad8c22)[/img]

(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmMv3Q9h.jpeg&hash=4d372b8f7a6b11097921821bfb54e955ff16171d)[/img]

(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKUr7v0H.jpeg&hash=7e31b733d72a3a7da9b78c4dc9f80c21ef4481c0)[/img]
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on May 27, 2025, 01:37:51 pm
What was your challenge? When seen, I suggest waiting for the Enforcement Notice and I will draft a detailed one for you bases on the evidence, or lack of it.

When the time comes, I suggest this:

1. I retract my previous informal challenge.

2. The video shows no evidence of my vehicle allegedly passing any upright warning signage at all. Therefore, the contravention did not occur.

3. Your website does not contain any of the statutory grounds and, indeed, when entering any of them it states these are unavailable.

In light of the above.

Please cancel

Point 3 may be debatable but I would use it at this stage.  More may be added later when the EN is seen.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on May 27, 2025, 01:10:48 pm
Website:

Bus lane reasons
These are the common reasons relating to bus lanes which we receive queries for

Select a reason:
 I am a Blue Badge holder and I was looking for disabled parking 
 I did not realise I was in a bus lane 
 I entered the bus lane to avoid congestion 
 I stopped in the bus lane due to my medical condition 
 I was avoiding an accident 
 I was following a diversion / was directed into the bus lane 
 I was following my sat-nav / I was lost / I'm not from the area 
 I was in the bus lane, but it wasn't in operation at the time 
 I was in the bus lane, but not for a substantial distance 
 I was making way for an emergency vehicle 
 I was picking up / dropping off a passenger at the train station 
 I was picking up / dropping off a passenger 
 I was taking advice from others 
 I was unaware of the rules 
 I was unaware that couriers were not permitted in the bus lane 
 I was unfamiliar with the term "Bus Gate" 
 My vehicle is a taxi 
 My vehicle type is permitted to drive in bus lanes 
 There was a road closure so the bus lane was not in operation 
 There was nowhere to turn around and avoid the bus gate 
 There were no buses in the bus lane at the time 
Other reasons
Non bus lane specific reasons that will appear in Bus Lane context

Select a reason:
 A friend / family member recently passed away 
 I didn't see / understand the signage 
 I have already paid the PCN 
 I was not at the location on the day 
 I was not the driver 
 I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle 
 I was unaware that a PCN had been issued as I've been away 
 My vehicle had broken down 
 My vehicle was cloned 
 My vehicle was stolen 
 The owner of the vehicle has passed away 
 The vehicle was on hire to someone else 
None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge your PCN, please select below:

Select a reason:
 Any other reason 
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: cp8759 on May 27, 2025, 12:54:06 pm
I've got to be honest, the representation seems rather far-fetched given what the video shows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy8wm04Pih4

Fortunately London authorities really struggle with their camera certifications for bus lanes, so that will probably be your trump card.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on May 27, 2025, 10:56:41 am
@beatthecase as a general rule all bus lane PCNs within Greater London can be beaten.

You should wait for the enforcement notice in any event, but starting with the basics what did your informal representations say?

I thought this was one of the hardest cases to beat...

Please see above

Thanks!
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on May 27, 2025, 10:55:39 am
What was your challenge? When seen, I suggest waiting for the Enforcement Notice and I will draft a detailed one for you bases on the evidence, or lack of it.

Please see below, thank you again!

Case number: EF98759576
Vehicle registration: EA74NVX
Contravention: 34J - Being in a bus lane
Date and time of contravention: 12/04/2025 12:28

Reason for appeal: 'I was avoiding an accident'

Your answers:

-Question 1 : 'Please briefly describe the circumstances of the accident which you tried to avoid by moving into the bus lane'
        Answer : 'Dear Sir/Madam,
On the day in question, I was travelling along Bullsmoor Lane when the vehicle directly in front of me brake-checked suddenly and without warning. To avoid a collision, my vehicle’s automated emergency safety system intervened and steered slightly into the bus lane momentarily. This action was necessary to avoid a serious rear-end accident and was not a deliberate attempt to use the bus lane improperly.
Importantly, I was in the bus lane for no more than 20 metres, which is within the generally accepted tolerance across many UK councils for evasive or merging manoeuvres.
Grounds for Appeal:
•       Emergency avoidance: The deviation into the bus lane was caused by an unforeseen and immediate hazard ahead.
•       Safety system activation: My vehicle acted independently to reduce risk, highlighting that this was not a voluntary traffic violation.
•       De minimis breach: The time and distance in the bus lane were minimal, likely under 20 metres — a reasonable and often accepted allowanc'
-Question 2 : 'Would you like to give us any more information or tell us about mitigating circumstances?'
        Answer : 'Yes'
-Question 3 : 'Please explain in as much detail as possible why you think your PCN should be cancelled'
        Answer : 'I was travelling with my disabled mum and kids and therefore was just trying to keep them out of harms way.'
-Question 4 : 'Would you like to upload any other documents to support your case?'
        Answer : 'No'
-Question 5 : 'We will process your information in accordance with our privacy policy. Please check the box below to confirm that you have read and understood the privacy policy'
        Answer : 'Checked'
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: cp8759 on May 27, 2025, 10:01:04 am
Nothing more than just curiosity but had a police officer seen the car cross that solid white line could that potentially be points and a fine?

In theory yes. In practice considering the number of stabbings, robberies, people walking into shops in broad daylight and loading their bags up with goods and walking out with no fear of prosecution, frankly they have better things to do. Examples here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HirUPAqaADA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4PUIHc4Rzs
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Fowler1981 on May 27, 2025, 08:11:22 am
Nothing more than just curiosity but had a police officer seen the car cross that solid white line could that potentially be points and a fine?
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: cp8759 on May 26, 2025, 10:34:47 pm
@beatthecase as a general rule all bus lane PCNs within Greater London can be beaten.

You should wait for the enforcement notice in any event, but starting with the basics what did your informal representations say?

Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: Hippocrates on May 26, 2025, 04:54:09 pm
What was your challenge? When seen, I suggest waiting for the Enforcement Notice and I will draft a detailed one for you bases on the evidence, or lack of it.
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on May 26, 2025, 11:13:36 am
Thanks Mickr!

@cp8759 and others please if you could help me out would mean the world!

Thanks
Title: Re: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: mickR on May 25, 2025, 01:10:05 pm
there was a case won at this location (not sure if it was on here or PPP) the wining point was the lack of bus lane sign at the start of the last stretch. seen in your pic behind your car is a break in the solid white bus lane line.
I can tell you that sign has never been replaced and was still missing just the other day. it can be seen on goole as a pole with no sign.
others will be along to give you guidance.
Title: Enfield council, 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement), BULLSMOOR LANE EN1 EN3
Post by: beatthecase on May 25, 2025, 12:12:29 pm
Hi team,

I know this is a shot in the dark but caught in the bus lane in which the anti collision system diverted me out of it. I have already had my informal rejection as the council auto rejected it in 1 day.

Google location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/1odD8KJb8NU1nu6u6

Pictures of correspondence and offence:

(https://i.imgur.com/YlOJpvG.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/pd9Whlk.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8dntdkz.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/nuDZe5X.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/4oYTo1E.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/skRG3Wr.jpeg)

https://parkingservices.itsvc.co.uk/enfield/notices/viewVideo.aspx?002999Q1EaTz66vrWJlrKxZ4MUWDNI5O6dWOwjHegUFkkktJAmzwErGZduVaqMz+eQL0LHYP7PdRzJi1smYr415BeUKw==