Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: FrenchFlyer on May 23, 2025, 02:09:34 pm
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So after a few more bizarre email exchanges which went along the lines of...
Me: You paid the PCN already so I can't appeal. Please tell me why Chichester refused to transfer liability.
Enterprise (cut and paste): You can appeal directly to the issuing authority. We are not responsible for their procedures.
..and Enterprise just ignoring my question about why Chichester Council refused to transfer liability.
I finally got another email saying:
Good morning
Thank you for your email
Whilst we understand and appreciate your frustration in regards to this matter ,as mentioned in our last email, the Notice to owner has not been dealt with at the time (by you as the hirer), therefore the issuing agency had reissued the fine to Enterprise.
As advised we have requested transfer of liability to reissue the fine in your name .
However the issuing agency have rejected transfer of liability as the Notice to owner( a physical tikets on the windscreen ) first issued has not been dealt with at the time.
If you are not happy with the outcome wish to file a complaint outside Enterprise, you can do so by contacting the BVRLA .
The contact details for the BVRLA are https://www.bvrla.co.uk/consumer-advice/making-a-complaint-adr.html
I hope this clarifies the matter and thank you for your patience during this time
They seem to be conflating the PCN with the notice to owner, and talk about the fine being "reissued" to Enterprise.
I'm toying with the idea of writing to the BVRLA in any case, just to get some clarity for other people who find themselves in a situation where the hire company just "rolls over", pays a PCN on rejection, and then refuses to provide any more information.
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Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I have already raised this with our business manager, if only to express my frustration at their rather opaque procedures.
So to summarise (as far as I can make out).
- A PCN was issued to the car I was driving in February
- On 14 March Enterprise received an NTO and emailed me to say they would be naming me as the hirer and I would hear from Chichester Council in due course.
- I heard nothing further until 23 May, when I got another email from Enterprise saying Chichester Council had "refused to transfer liability to me". This was presumably the Notice of Rejection (the reference number they give has a "/REJ" suffix)
Enterprise have provided me with a copy of the original notice to owner, but have refused to provide the information they submitted in response to it, and have also refused to provide the Notice of Rejection which would show (I should imagine) the reasons given for refusal.
Given that the time between the NTO arriving and Chichester Council making the rejection is well over 28 days, it seems logical to assume they either replied out of time, or didn't provide correct details.
When I queried both of these points I got a rather bizarre mish-mash of cut-and-paste stock replies and bizarrely-worded, sometimes nonsensical "arguments" about GDPR, although as mentioned previously, I don't really see how these apply given I had given them consent to provide my details to Chichester Council.
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If you are the president of a French company that has a corporate account with Enterprise - of whom you have been a loyal customer for many years - I think I'd be contacting whichever of their sales reps or agents deal with your corporate account and tactfully suggest to them that it might be a good idea if they sorted this mess out at no cost to you or your company...
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Attached the letter of authority.
They mention transfer of liability (which according to other correspondence has already been refused!)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I DID receive a copy of the original Notice to Owner from March (on request) but what Enterprise are refusing to provide are the details they gave to Chichester Council (strange, given they are mine!) and the notice of rejection in which Chichester Council apparently refused to transfer liability to me.
Attached the notice to owner.
They have also sent me a "letter of authority".
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I don't think they're being so much cagey as inept.
As advised the Notice to owner has not been dealt with at the time, therefore issuing agency reissued the fine to Enterprise. However, when the transfer of liability has been requested the issuing agency has rejected this as not personal details were
displayed due to GDPR reasons, by sending an Enforcement notice to Enterprise .
Pretty easy to put the meat on this:
By 'Notice to Owner at the time' they mean PCN on your car;
'not personal details were displayed due to GDPR reasons', is to misunderstand those and parking regs. By you signing their contract you would have agreed that your details could be shared with law enforcement and other entitled agencies in the applicable country. If they didn't, then that's down to them.
They won't provide you with the NTO because it's addressed to them!
Where's the letter of authority?
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Yes, I signed a standard rental agreement with them as I do 3/4 times per month all over Europe.
The "liability for fines" clause is standard for all rentals.
Giving their rather cagey response about the notice of rejection, I imagine they either incorrectly filed representations, or sent them out of time.
In all fairness to Enterprise, I have been a loyal customer for many years and always found their staff in rental branches to be very efficient.
I think the people dealing with traffic tickets may not be quite so efficient.
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This is the company with which you have a 'corporate rental'!
You do not have any rights of appeal to the authority because you are a legal stranger to proceedings. However, Enterprise say that 'We have provided you with a letter of authority which you are required to include with your written appeal correspondence (you are required to please print the letter if posting your appeal or add the document to your online appeal).'
Where is this pl? They cannot authorise you to deal with the authority on your behalf, only theirs.
Everything that Enterprise needed to relieve themselves of liability and give the authority the power to treat you as the 'owner' you should already have and could provide, namely:
(ii)the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability acknowledging their liability in respect of any penalty charge notice served in respect of any relevant road traffic contravention involving the vehicle during the currency of the hiring agreement; and,
(7) Where a recipient relies on the ground specified in paragraph (4)(d), their representations must state the name and address of the person to whom the vehicle was hired at the material time.
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Hi all,
Some news on this case.
I requested details of the notice of rejection and received the attached (nonsensical??) email.
They seem utterly clueless as to the specifics of the case and just seem to cut and paste stock responses to any questions I ask.
Am I right in thinking that their having paid the fine means I have no right of appeal ?
Thanks for your help
FF
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Fine. I'll put the issue of what you describe as 'corporate rental' to one side for the present and await the docs.
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The "hirer" as far as Enterprise are concerned is absolutely the driver in their individual capacity: they sign the contract and their details are on the system. Our company is simply a source of funding for the rental.
When a staff member is caught speeding or committing any other offence, we (the company) receive no notification at all: Enterprise contact them directly.
Given we are a French company, this may be different to how it works in the UK. 90% of our rentals are in France and Belgium, and where I have incurred a fine (parking or speeding) it has always been redirected to me personally as the renter.
All of the invoices received from Enterprise thus far have also been addressed to me personally, at my personal address (no mention of the company).
I have requested copies of the notice of rejection from Enterprise, but they are closed on weekends so hopefull they will reply on Monday.
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We book the cars for our staff, the staff collect the cars, and we get an invoice on return.
The rental agreement is always with the renter in their personal capacity.
The company books the cars and yet the rental agreement is with each person in their personal capacity
!!
Billing of the rental + any unpaid extras (one way fees, fuel, etc) are invoiced to us at the end of the rental. They don't give a credit card and we stand as garantor for the damage excess.
However, any offences (speeding, parking...) plus admin fees are passed directly on to the driver, our company has no involvement with them at all. Payment is between the driver and Enterprise directly.
You cannot require Enterprise to pass to the driver in regulatory terms, the driver has no standing under the regs. Your company may do so after having paid the invoice or been authorised by Enterprise to act on their behalf, but this is a matter for each employment contract and internal procedures. I think you're confusing the two. Therefore on the basis of what you've posted and absent the key documents*, IMO the following is most likely:
Enterprise tried to pass the buck to the driver under regs because your contract with them states that your company won't fund these;
This is not permitted under regs but perhaps Enterprise tried and were correctly kicked back by the authority who would only deal with the person who is the hirer under regs.
*- Enterprise's reps and the Notice of Rejection.
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My company (of which I am the President) has an account with Enterprise.
We book the cars for our staff, the staff collect the cars, and we get an invoice on return.
The rental agreement is always with the renter in their personal capacity.
Billing of the rental + any unpaid extras (one way fees, fuel, etc) are invoiced to us at the end of the rental. They don't give a credit card and we stand as garantor for the damage excess.
However, any offences (speeding, parking...) plus admin fees are passed directly on to the driver, our company has no involvement with them at all. Payment is between the driver and Enterprise directly.
I don't object to them levying an admin fee (it was in the contract). What I do object to is their confusing procedure, whereby they say :
1) Here's a parking fine. We won't pay it, and will pass the details on to the council. You'll be able to appeal once they contact you.
Then a couple of weeks later....
2) Actually, it's too much effort to insist you were the hirer, so we'll just pay it, and sod your right of appeal.
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They will be unable to take payment for either as the rental was through a corporate account (no credit card provided), so will be interesting to see how far they want to press the issue.
'Rental was through a corporate account'!
If a corporate account, why write to you if you were only the driver? If you signed the 'statement of liability' was this understood as being in your personal capacity or as a person authorised by the corporate account holder who IMO would then be the 'hirer'.
If the invoices are in your name and in your personal capacity, then if you don't pay who's to know Enterprise's next step. Was the hire subject to the laws of England and Wales or what? But if to you in the capacity of an authorised representative of the hirer(corporate account holder) then their next step might be your employer.
Who is the hirer in law? Was it a company or was it you in your name?
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They have invoiced me a £35 admin fee, and now invoiced me £70 for the parking fine.
They will be unable to take payment for either as the rental was through a corporate account (no credit card provided), so will be interesting to see how far they want to press the issue.
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A NTO is an 'enforcement notice' whereas a CC is not. It might also be that Enterprise have used the term in its general sense, who knows?
It's possible that the penalty has been paid by them after receipt of the NTO....but paid late, hence the CC.
This is all speculation.
As it stands, what are your losses i.e. have they debited a sum from your account?
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Yes apologies for my mixing up of terminology, there is no reference to a charge notice, only a NTO dated 12 March (I have a copy) and an "enforcement notice" (referenced in correspondence but not yet seen).
However, when I try to login to the Chichester Council website, I get a message saying "it appears a charge certificate has been issued".
If there was a physical PCN on the vehicle I have no recollection of seeing one, the first I heard was the email from Enterprise after the NTO arrived.
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6/2/25 Date of alleged Offence
12/3/25 NTO sent to Enterprise
What did you do with the PCN on the car you'd hired?
Enterprise are idiots, but as regards parking legislation I don't think this helps you.
You have led us astray with references to a CC. Enterprise have paid the penalty at the full rate following receipt of the authority's Notice of Rejection which presumably did not re-offer the discount*.
From the regs:
"enforcement notice”, other than in regulation 35, means—
(a)
a regulation 10 penalty charge notice, or
(b)
a notice to owner;
We don't know which because you've not told us how a PCN was served on the vehicle, if indeed it was.
If a NTO, then there's no CC as their email makes clear.
So, to reset this matter there is no 14-day time limit and CC.
But before going on, tell us what you did with the PCN.
*- get a copy of the NOR from them.
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Timeline :
6/2/25 Date of alleged Offence
12/3/25 NTO sent to Enterprise
22/5/25 : Email received saying "enforcement notice received" and payment made
I was first notified just after they received the notice to owner (see photo) where they clearly state "Enterprise will not pay this charge".
I subsequently received a further email yesterday where I was informed that they had paid it.
On querying why it had been paid, they stated they had received an "enforcement notice" which I assume was the Charge Certificate (see email response).
What seems nonsensical to me is that despite them having paid, they still state I can appeal (which is not the case, as I understand it).
[attachment deleted by admin]
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You don't state explicitly but I assume Enterprise are looking to pass the cost on to you (plus an admin fee?).
Whether the council had the right to refuse to transfer the case to your name I do not know, but either way Enterprise should have a duty of care to you and if they were going to pay it they should have done it before it reached Charge Certificate stage.
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Enterprise should has gone to the Tribunal stating there is a statutory ground to transfer the liability to you, they may get costs awarded in their favour as the Council may be wholly unreasonable.
However it is not your problem as you cannot make representations if it is not in your name, Council will not accept your representation unless it is in your name due to GDPR.
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They can't pursue you abroad although they can set a useless debt collector on you.
Whether they are entitled to refuse the reps I don't know.
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Thanks for your reply.
It was a car rented from the UK.
My French address was on the hire contract (I don't have any other address).
What I don't understand, is on what grounds the Council would refuse to recognise me as the hirer, given my address was provided and it is one of the statutory grounds for making representations?
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Enterprise are idiots, but there we are!
I would add that I live in France.
Pl expand.
You hired the car in the UK;
The address you gave was your address in France or not?
Your driving licence is French or international?
Or?
In any event, if the authority did not treat you as the owner(transfer liability to the hirer)then they refused those representations from Enterprise who were therefore put on notice in a Notice of Rejection that they had to pay the penalty or appeal or risk the penalty increasing by 50% and a CC being issued.
When did they contact you? Do you know the date of the CC?
A CC has a time limit of 14 days, so in whatever time remains the chances of them bringing you into the game(i.e. give you standing to act on their behalf) are v. slim IMO.
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Hello to all,
Quick overview of my situation :
In February I received a PCN for parking in a suspended bay in Chichester.
The first I knew of it was an email from the car rental company (Enterprise) in March, informing me they had received a notice to owner and would be naming me as the hirer.
Fast forward to yesterday, and I get another email from Enterprise stating that Chichester Council "refused to transfer liability to me" and had issued a charge certificate, which Enterprise had since paid.
I would add that I live in France.
Presumably, this extinguishes all possibility of my appealing the ticket? As far as I can see, it does, but Enterprise state:
Should you wish to appeal, you will still have the opportunity to do so, however please let us know so that a letter of authority can be issued to you providing our permission to liaise with the issuing authority whilst the fine remains in our name.
Thanks for your help.