Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Mr Tickle on May 21, 2025, 08:33:34 am
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Unlikely to succeed but worth a try say for 2-3 hours of your time on the basis they've been unreasonable.
https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/costs
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Seriously?
How would I do that, through the traffic tribunal or the local authority honestly I wouldn't know where to start?
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Ask for costs - this is time wasting nonsense by the council.
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Appeal Successful 8)
The authority did not submit any evidence
So even though they knew they would loose on appeal, they continued with one more shameless grasp at attempting a obtain a payment.
Many thanks to all who contributed, My weekend is off to a great start.
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You can just say I rely on my formal representations and am appealing on contravention did not occur;
and procedural impropriety (there may be tick boxes for these).
The council must provide a copy of your representations in its evidence pack for the tribunal.
Understood. Appeal submitted.
Many thanks
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You can just say I rely on my formal representations and am appealing on contravention did not occur;
and procedural impropriety (there may be tick boxes for these).
The council must provide a copy of your representations in its evidence pack for the tribunal.
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Just register your appeal:
Contravention did not occur;
Procedural impropriety.
So only put that (not a long description with pics) and then wait for them to contact me further?
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Just register your appeal:
Contravention did not occur;
Procedural impropriety.
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They do offer telephone/online hearings - maybe that option comes up after you've lodged the appeal.
I would call and ask.
https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/contact-us/#contactoptions
https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/what-to-expect-at-a-hearing/
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If you register an appeal with the tribunal following their website instructions, it does not offer the option of telephone or online hearing?
I have completed all of the steps online; created an account, filled in the appeal, attached the photos and the only option at the end is to submit it? I haven't clicked the submit button yet.
Should I phone them instead and asked for the call or online hearing?
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The next step is to register an appeal with the tribunal. Opt for a telephone or online hearing.
They are still claiming it is a restricted parking zone. It just isn't. It is only signed as a pedestrian zone which can only be enforced as a moving traffic contravention.
I think the reason they doubling down is in 2023 it was signed as a restricted zone. But now (or when you were there) it isn't.
(https://i.ibb.co/gL7hgkLk/Screenshot-2025-10-27-at-18-44-17.png)
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(https://i.ibb.co/S70zNHB1/Market-Notice-of-rejection-of-representations-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S70zNHB1)
I have received the Notice of rejection of representations today.
What should be my next step please?
Thanks
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I Like your thoughts and have sent that reply.
Let's see how they reply.
Many thanks for this.
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Dear Sir,
PCN ********
I refer to the above and the NTO issued on 1 October 2025.
The alleged contravention relates to a 'waiting' restriction which the council is obliged to convey to motorists. The normal manner is by the use of yellow lines, however, in limited and specified circumstances the council may omit these indicators. These are:
Restricted Parking Zones(RPZ) (as defined by Schedule 1 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 - the Traffic Signs regulations), and
Pedestrian and Pedestrian and Cycle Zones(PZ) (as defined by Schedule 1 to the Traffic Signs regulations).
In either case, the prescribed traffic signs include a symbol for 'No waiting', something with which the council is fully aware. As regards a RPZ, this symbol is mandatory and forms an integral part of the prescribed sign whereas with a PZ the inclusion is optional as the PZ sign itself is prescribed only for moving traffic restrictions.
Turning to the authority's evidence, this comprises several clear photos of my car waiting on a road without any yellow lines, indeed the authority does not argue the contrary in their letter dated **** which erroneously rejected my informal representations. The photos also include a clear PZ sign. However, as can be seen this does not carry the optional 'no waiting' symbol and therefore as a matter of legal interpretation does not convey a waiting restriction within the zone.
It was irresponsible of the authority to reject my previous representations based upon an incorrect use of the term Restricted Parking Zone which flew in the face of its own evidence. I sincerely hope that this error is not repeated in the response to these representations which may only be that the PCN is cancelled. Whether you wish to inform your colleagues within the traffic management section that the sign needs changing(to the form which GSV shows existed until as recently as October 2023 ) at this point or wait until an adjudicator allows an appeal, I leave to you.
In short, when the council changed the restriction from Pedestrian and Cycle zone to Pedestrian Zone i.e. to ban ridden cycles, it changed the sign but omitted to include the mandatory 'No waiting' restriction on the new PZ sign, therefore rendering enforcement of waiting restrictions unlawful.
...some thoughts
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For convenience:
(https://i.ibb.co/7tVdn6cw/Nt-O-Market-1st-letter.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qvn3P1B2)
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NtO received today see attached:
(https://i.ibb.co/Qvn3P1B2/Nt-O-Market-1st-letter.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qvn3P1B2)
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As I understand it, DVLA will have the name of the person contracted to Motobility and the NTO would come direct.
Edit: The registered keeper of a Motability Scheme car is the Motability Scheme customer (the disabled person receiving the vehicle) or their appointed nominee, whose name appears on the V5C registration document. Although Motability owns the vehicle, the customer is recorded as the keeper and is responsible for parking fines and other notices. You can view a copy of the V5C through your online account on the Motability website.
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No It's my Daughters motability car and is driven by whichever carer is on shift.
I assume the NTO will come to my address though (after the NTO has gone to motability first) as the wife is the registered appointee on the contract.
hopefully Motability will not delay or add any of their own "admin charges" before they do send it to us.
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OP, are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details? If so, then the NTO would come to you.
Let's deal with this first.
As regards the contravention, it's nonsense and we can take the eejits through this step by step
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I would wait for the notice to owner - I can't see anything for them.
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They have its on my post 12 (and your post 4)- you have to click on it and then it opens up to show the sign
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So they have not included a picture of any sign?
The sign the CEO did take a pic of is a pedestrian zone - breaching it is a moving traffic contravention not a parking contravention.
They say you were in a pedestrian zone but also in a restricted parking zone but these are entry signs for an RPZ:
(https://i.ibb.co.com/Ngv0CR9p/Screenshot-2025-09-03-at-12-22-39.png)
and this is how a pedestrian zone with no waiting must be signed:
(https://i.ibb.co.com/qL1WBpff/Screenshot-2025-09-03-at-12-32-13.png)
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The pictures they have send are two of the same pictures in your post # 4
I agree that the pictures do not cover the convention. Is this a reason we can continue the challenge and if so how should I proceed?
Thanks
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Pics attached
(https://i.ibb.co/m5HBFvMX/PCN-Market-2nd-letter-pics.jpg) (http://[url=https://ibb.co/m5HBFvMX)](https://i.ibb.co/m5HBFvMX/PCN-Market-2nd-letter-pics.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5HBFvMX)[/url]
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They say it is covered by appropriate signage and enclose pics.
Post the pics.
The online pics I posted before do not show any such signage.
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For future reference, scroll down past the image, copy the BBC, paste it here, et voilą...
(https://i.ibb.co/B5vmPPQk/PCN-Market-2nd-Rejection.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4nCcffXk)
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Yes- Thanks
redacted image now available.
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You have discovered why the use of attachments is not recommended.
The easiest way to upload docs here (unless you have no mobile phone camera) is to use yr phone to photo each page of each doc, redacting yr name & address where it occurs, and uploading the images to an external site like https://ibb.co/ or imgur and copy and post the BBCodes here. I use ibb with no probs.
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I have finally received a rejection reply from SWPG.
Is it worth pushing this further as the discounted price is still available for 14 days?
See attached rejection letter:
https://ibb.co/4nCcffXk (https://ibb.co/4nCcffXk)
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I am challenging the PCN because the contravention (code 02) alleged on the PCN did not occur.
There is no waiting restriction signed at the entry to the pedestrian zone as the picture taken by your CEO shows. There do not appear to be any signed waiting restrictions within in the zone.
As such the PCN has been issued in error and I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation.
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I'll reply with this:
"The contravention never occurred as there is no waiting restriction on the zone entry sign picture taken by the CEO and you have provided no other signage.
Cancel ticket"
Is this ok, anything further or different to add?
Many thanks
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Weird - they seem to have removed the signage that would have created the no waiting restriction served on you. As it stands I can't see the contravention occurred as there is no waiting restriction on the zone entry sign picture taken by the CEO and they have provided no other signage.
On Google Maps from 2023 there is both the properly signed zone entry and also some repeater signs.
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(https://i.ibb.co/hxHj9YZW/Screenshot-2025-05-21-at-13-58-19.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/ktMsqGJ/t6.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/tM3rzSVT/t5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/v7Gw59s/t4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JRPC3y6V/t3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/5hhyjBKG/t2.jpg)
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PCN both sides no redactions
plus Google link to location, note the old sign in the google has now been replaced with the new sigh in the photo attached.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AdPSsyaeK17qQZrCA
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Post the PCN with no redactions. The code 02 is nothing to do with the zone entry sign you've posted.
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The sign allows vehicles in for loading, and also authorised vehicles. We don't know what these are, but I suspect BB holder vehicles are not allowed or the sign would say so. HOwever, you'd have to check the Traffic Regulation Order to be sure.
It's probably best to submit representations based on what you have told us here. Post up their reply when you get it.
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The vehicle was parked outside the market whilst the disabled occupant was taken for a hair cut. Blue badge was displayed.
There are no signs on this street other that than the one at the entrance to market street (where it was parked) as seen on the picture.
Is this worth a challenge ?
Many thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]