Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Bude_2023 on May 20, 2025, 04:39:07 pm

Title: Re: PCN - Alliance Parking - Seaview Car Park, Polzeath - Moorside Legal
Post by: jfollows on May 21, 2025, 12:50:48 pm
You didn’t park because there were no spaces available, and therefore the contract on offer didn’t stand, and you couldn’t enter into it, let alone accept it by parking.
Title: Re: PCN - Alliance Parking - Seaview Car Park, Polzeath - Moorside Legal
Post by: Bude_2023 on May 21, 2025, 12:26:46 pm
Many thanks for you reply and proposed email.

May I ask, am I in the wrong or right in this situation, i.e. if we didn't 'park' (because there were no spaces available)?
Is Ashby v Tolhurst [1937] 2 K.B. 242. still definitive case law?

By the way, as we didn't get out the car, we didn't read any signage in the car park so would have no way of knowing contract terms or entering into any contract by parking.

Thanks
T
Title: Re: PCN - Alliance Parking - Seaview Car Park, Polzeath - Moorside Legal
Post by: b789 on May 20, 2025, 07:43:21 pm
Don't worry too much, even though you have made two big mistakes. Moorside Legal are a firm of incompetent wannabe legals and you can guarantee that they will screw top any eventual claim that is issued.

The first mistake was identifying the driver. The second was responding to Trace Recovery. Trace, like any other debt recovery company, are powerless to actually do anything. You should never, ever, enter into any communication with a useless debt collector. They have no power to do anything as they are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver. All they can do is try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

So, whatever you sent to Trace was a complete waste of time and effort. Whatever Moorside have put in their Letter of Claim (LoC), will not have complied with the Pre Action Protocols for debt claims (PAPDC).

So, you need to respond to Moorside with the following by emailing to help@moorsidelegal.co.uk and also CC in yourself:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. It would be an abuse of the court’s process for your client to issue a claim against me and I will defend any such claim vigorously and seek costs in relation to your client’s unreasonable and vexatious conduct under Part 27.14(2)(g)

Because your letter lacks specificity and breaches the requirements of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2) as well as the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)), you must treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents/information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction and the Pre-Action Protocol for debt claims and your client, as a serial litigator of debt claims, should likewise be aware of them. As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is embarrassing that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter of Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the Pre-Action Protocol.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; for how long it is claimed the vehicle was parked, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. If the claim is for a contractual breach, photographs showing the vehicle was parked in contravention of said contract.
7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).
9. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
10. Photographs of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed) at the time of any alleged contravention.
11. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
12. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
13. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]

A claim will be issued but it is unlikely to ever reach a hearing and will most likely be struck out or discontinued.
Title: PCN - Alliance Parking - Seaview Car Park, Polzeath - Moorside Legal
Post by: Bude_2023 on May 20, 2025, 04:39:07 pm
Hi
We were on holiday in Cornwall and made the mistake of driving into the Seaview Car Park.  No spaces available so we sat in the car for 10 minutes and then exited the car park.
On return from holiday we had a PCN from Alliance Parking which I immediately appealed with the reason we did NOT PARK.  I did admit I was the driver.
Alliance then passed the matter to 'Trace Recovery'.
I issued a 'Cease and Desist Notice' to Trace citing them and Alliance Parking which received no reply. The 'Cease and Desist Notice' cited 'Ashby v Tolhurst [1937] 2 K.B. 242' and the determination that 'Parking' was to 'leave your car'.
Alliance have now passed the matter to Moorside Legal.  Moorside have sent 3 letters, latest of which is a 'LETTER OF CLAIM'.

What do I do?  Part of me wants to pay the £170 just to get rid of them but equally that capitulation would be wholly unprincipled - unless of course, I am in the wrong.

Looking for advice please.
Do I pay up
or
Fight and if so, what do I do next?

Thank You
T

Cease and Desist including PCN, Appeal and Trace Letters
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yPpnDWaoJcjKeJ8eI4P3VQAGcCdCgt_n/view?usp=sharing

Moorside Legal Letters
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RC87QqBfWCIk5f6X0SJe4s3p5nvh-C3p/view?usp=sharing