Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: markeman on May 18, 2025, 03:20:34 pm

Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on December 13, 2025, 05:06:37 pm
Thank you @b789, helpful to know the options
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: b789 on December 05, 2025, 06:16:17 pm
If the mediator says they are not legally trained, or refuses to say:

Thank you. In that case I’ll simply rely on my filed defence. For settlement purposes my position is that liability is denied and my offer is £0, or the claimant can discontinue with no order as to costs. I don’t wish to go into the legal arguments in detail; that is a matter for the trial judge.

If the mediator says they are legally trained:

Thank you. I appreciate that, but I am not here to debate the legal merits with you. I will explain my case to the judge if it goes to a hearing. For settlement purposes my position is that liability is denied and my offer is £0, or the claimant can discontinue with no order as to costs. I’d be grateful if you could relay that.

If the mediator starts probing the defence or expressing opinions on its strength:

May I ask in what capacity you are raising that – as a neutral mediator or as a legal adviser to one of the parties? I do not expect legal opinions from the mediator. I will rely on my filed defence and I will set out my arguments to the judge. For today, my settlement position is that liability is denied and my offer is £0, or the claimant can discontinue with no order as to costs.

As for your second question about tiny “tariff level”. if the claimant offers to settle for the original parking tariff or some nominal amount, you have a straight choice: principle versus guaranteed closure.

If you want closure and are not absolutely wedded to principle:

"Without any admission of liability, I am prepared to pay £[tariff/nominal amount] in full and final settlement of all claims arising from this PCN and this court claim, on the basis that the claimant discontinues the claim and there is no order as to costs.

If you are driven by principle and are comfortable going as far as a hearing (99.9% for sure will never happen):

My position remains that liability is denied and my offer is £0, or the claimant can discontinue with no order as to costs.”

There is no hidden legal trap in accepting a trivial sum, provided the mediator records that it is without admission of liability, in full and final settlement, with the claim to be discontinued and no order as to costs. But it is entirely legitimate for you to refuse and stand on a £0 offer if that is your preference.

I have already explained that this will never get as far as a hearing and will be either struck out or discontinued if you let it run its course.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on December 05, 2025, 05:52:44 pm
Thank you @b789, very clear.

Should the mediator say yes to being legally trained, is it best to just repeat my position "liability is denied and my offer is £0"?

Should the the claimant offer to settle for the original actual parking cost (or equivalent figure of insignificance) is there any value / risk entertaining this to guarantee closure?
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: b789 on December 05, 2025, 03:01:40 pm
Yes, the General Sanctions Order is the reminder you received about the N180 DQ. As MCOL now shows your DQ as "filed" that is all you need to do regarding that.

For the mediation call, the only requirement is for you "attend" the call. It is not part of the judicial process and no judge is involved.

This is what I advise you to say when you receive the call from the mediator:

Before I set out my position, please confirm from the claimant’s side:

• the full name of the person attending for them;
• their role/position at their legal representative’s firm; and
• whether they hold written authority to negotiate and settle today.

Please relay that back to me before we continue.

After the mediator calls back...

If identified and authority confirmed:

Thank you. I’m content to proceed on that basis. My settlement offer is £0, or I invite the claimant to discontinue with no order as to costs.

If no/unclear authority:

Please record that the claimant’s attendee has not confirmed settlement authority. My position remains that liability is denied and my offer is £0, subject to prompt approval by an authorised solicitor if they choose to discontinue.

If the mediator probes your defence:

In what capacity are you asking that question? Are you legally trained?  If not, please refrain from offering opinions. I will be reporting any attempt to do so as inappropriate.”

All you need to know is the name and the position of the person acting for the claimant and report that back to us. It will be over within minutes. Complete waste of time otherwise.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on December 05, 2025, 10:01:35 am
A couple of updates. 

A little while after proactively submitting the DQ a very formal letter arrived, essentially warning that the DQ must be submitted.  I'm putting this down to some lag in the system.  However, MoneyClaimOnline transaction history now shows:


I assume the "General sanctions order" refers to the formal letter received.  Does this entry matter?  Any action required on my part now they've received my DQ?

Since then an email from HM Courts & Tribunals Service has landed - "Your telephone mediation appointment".  It advises a contact number must be provided to scmreferrals@justice.gov.uk and any delegation of authority.

I'm assuming the mediation call is mandatory.  Could someone advise on impact of delegating (does it introduce any material risk?) and a steer on how to drive the mediation call?  Many thanks as always
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on November 10, 2025, 03:44:05 pm
Thanks @jfollows, much appreciated.  DQ has been filed.

(I should have searched the forum first, apologies)
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: jfollows on November 10, 2025, 02:40:48 pm
If you search the forum for
N180
you will see that it’s probably the most answered question, for example
Quote
Having received your own N180 (make sure it is not simply a copy of the claimants N180) or been notified on MCOL that yours has been sent, do not use the paper form. Ignore all the other forms that came with it. you can discard those. Download your own N180 DQ here and fill it in on your computer. You sign it by simply typing your full name in the signature box.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/673341e779e9143625613543/N180_1124.pdf

Here are the answers to some of the less obvious questions:

• The name of the court is "Civil National Business Centre".

• To be completed by "Your full name" and you are the "Defendant".

• C1: "YES"

• D1: "NO". Reason: "I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions.
Given the Claimant is a firm who complete cut & paste parking case paperwork for a living, having this case heard solely on papers would appear to put the Claimant at an unfair advantage, especially as they would no doubt prefer the Defendant not to have the opportunity to expose the issues in the Claimants template submissions or speak as the only true witness to events in question.."

• F1: Whichever is your nearest county court. Use this to find it: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/search-option

• F3: "1".

• Sign the form by simply typing your full name for the signature.

When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.
By making it a hearing in person at your local court you almost ensure that DCB Legal will discontinue rather than spending time and money to attend.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on November 10, 2025, 02:24:10 pm
Still waiting for the N180 after a few months.. logged onto Money Claim Online to check status and it showed:


So the DQ has clearly gotten lost somewhere (I've been keeping eye on junk email folders).  Spoke to MCO support, they emailed me a PDF N180 and advised I email a completed copy to DQ.CNBC@justice.gov.uk and all other parties, in this case I assume DCB Legal's email address on their DQ (info@dcblegal.co.uk)?

Is it possible I've missed a deadline to submit the N180?

The DQ seems pretty straightforward, any particular things to watch out for?  Some specific questions:


To @b789 's comment, as per my OP in my earlier correspondence with BaySentry / DCB I offered to pay any difference if they could tell me what that difference was.  Have I inadvertently admitted liability, and will this impact the County Court Case outcome?
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: b789 on September 03, 2025, 09:33:23 am
Offer even a penny and you admit liability. If you follow the advice, this will either be struck out or discontinued in due course.

Wait for your own N180.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: jfollows on September 02, 2025, 10:02:36 pm
It’s normal that parking companies such as BaySentry get £0 from the money people pay to park, in return for which they get to keep every penny they can extract from those who don’t comply with their terms and conditions.

So offering to pay the original fee is of no interest to them.

They just want your credit card details.

Their offer to ‘settle’ is just boilerplate. Ignore it.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on September 02, 2025, 09:54:39 pm
No N180 from the court yet but below email received today from DCBLegal (without even a signature from the author!).  They attached a copy of their completed N180 where they have said yes to small claims track, yes to being suitable for determination without a hearing and requested the hearing venue is the claimant's home court.

FWIW I'm happy to settle by paying the original parking amount that was due (~£3).  Is there any downside in contacting them as below, now that they have offered to settle in writing?  I assume if a settlement can't be reached, or your guidance is not to settle due to legal concerns, then I wait for the N180 questionnaire to land?

Quote
Good morning

Having reviewed the content of your defence, we write to inform you that our client intends to proceed with the claim.
 
In due course, the Court will direct both parties to each file a directions questionnaire. In preparation for that, please find attached a copy of the Claimant's, which we confirm has been filed with the Court.
 
Without Prejudice to the above, in order to assist the Court in achieving its overriding objective, our client may be prepared to settle this case - in the event you wish to discuss settlement, please call us on 0203 434 0433 within 7 days and make immediate reference to this correspondence.
 
If you have provided an email address within your Defence, we intend to use it for service of documents (usually in PDF format) hereon in pursuant to PD 6A (4.1)(2)(c). Please advise whether there are any limitations to this (for example, the format in which documents are to be sent and the maximum size of attachments that may be received). Unless you advise otherwise, we will assume not.

Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: jfollows on August 05, 2025, 08:17:41 am
The court will send you a N180 form in due course, but you should complete it online. The court will later on post you information about allocation to your local court and deadlines.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on August 04, 2025, 10:30:37 pm
Understood, defence submitted today via MCOL.

Any sense of what period they must respond in?  I provided an email address in the defence, will they use this for all correspondence instead of post or do they issue via email and post?
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: jfollows on August 04, 2025, 09:12:39 am
Is it the fact the PoC refers to both the driver and "in the alternative" the keeper that is the source of the lack of clarity?
Yes
They use the same boilerplate for everyone, it’s a sausage machine, they spend no time and effort modifying it to match the circumstances.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on August 03, 2025, 11:01:07 pm
Fantastic, defence uploaded to MCOL as advised.  One question before I submit - Section 3 of the defence states:

Quote
(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is
sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant
cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

The PoC on the claim form state:

Quote
3. The Defendant is pursued as the driver of the vehicle... [snip]
Quote
4. In the alternative the Defendant is pursued as the keeper pursuant to.. [snip]

Is it the fact the PoC refers to both the driver and "in the alternative" the keeper that is the source of the lack of clarity?
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: b789 on August 02, 2025, 09:09:38 am
You don't need any of the other forms that came with the claim. With an issue date of 25th July you have until 4pm on Wednesday 13th August to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Wednesday 27th August to submit your defence.

You only need to submit an AoS if you need extra time to prepare your defence. If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Until very recently, we never advised using the MCOL to submit a defence. However, due to recent systemic failures within the CNBC, we feel that it is safer to now submit a short defence using MCOL as it is instantly submitted and entered into the "system". Whilst it will deny the use of some formatting or inclusion of transcripts etc. these can always be included with the Witness Statement (WS) later, if it ever progresses that far.

You will need to copy and paste it into the defence text box on MCOL. It has been checked to make sure that it will fit into the 65 characters per line and 122 lines limit.

Quote
1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant
asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no
debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately
disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim
(PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made
against the Defendant such that the PoC do not adequately comply
with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the
PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16.7.3(1);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause
(or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or
contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons)
why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract
(or contracts);

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly
where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach
occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked
before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is
calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest,
damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the
parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is
sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant
cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant submits that courts have previously struck out
similar claims of their own initiative for failure to adequately
comply with CPR 16.4, particularly where the Particulars of
Claim failed to specify the contractual terms relied upon or
explain the alleged breach with sufficient clarity.

5. In comparable cases involving modest sums, judges have found
that requiring further case management steps would be
disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective.
Accordingly, strike-out was deemed appropriate. The Defendant
submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites
the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim
due to the Claimant’s failure to adequately comply with
CPR 16.4, rather than permitting an amendment. The Defendant
proposes that the following Order be made:

Draft Order:

Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars
of claim and the defence.

AND the court being of the view that the particulars of claim
do not adequately comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) because:
(a) they do not set out the exact wording of the clause
(or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract which
is (or are) relied on; and
(b) they do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why
the claimant asserts that the defendant was in breach of
contract.

AND the claimant could have complied with CPR 16.4(1)(a) had it
served separate detailed particulars of claim, as it could have
done pursuant to CPR PD 7C.5.2(2), but chose not to do so.

AND upon the claim being for a very modest sum such that the
court considers it disproportionate and not in accordance with
the overriding objective to allot to this case any further share
of the court's resources by ordering further particulars of
claim and a further defence, each followed by further referrals
to the judge for case management.

ORDER:
1. The claim is struck out.
2. Permission to either party to apply to set aside, vary or
stay this order by application on notice, which must be filed at
this Court not more than 5 days after service of this order,
failing which no such application may be made.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on August 01, 2025, 06:12:02 pm
Hi forum experts

The formal claims letter and N1SDT Claim Form have arrived, attached for your reference.  I have the response pack too, I can share too if helpful.  Look forward to hearing your wise words.

Many thanks for the ongoing help.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: b789 on June 19, 2025, 06:17:28 pm
Just wait for the claim. However, you can also report DCB Legal to the SRA. Just email the following to report@sra.org.ukand CC in yourself:

Quote
To: report@sra.org.uk

Subject: Complaint Regarding DCB Legal Ltd – Misleading and Non-Compliant Pre-Action Conduct

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to raise concerns regarding the conduct of DCB Legal Ltd (SRA ID: 638291) in relation to a Letter of Claim sent to me on behalf of their client Bay Sentry Solutions Ltd, reference number [insert reference number].

Summary of Concern

DCB Legal issued a Letter of Claim dated [insert date] which purports to comply with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (PAPDC). However, the letter fails to comply with multiple provisions of the Protocol, including paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1, and 5.2, and also breaches the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c).

I responded with a formal request for the information and documentation required under the Protocol. DCB Legal replied on [insert date], refusing to supply several key documents and claiming, without basis, that my requests were "disproportionate" or "not relevant". I enclose copies of the Letter of Claim, my response, and DCB Legal's reply for your review.

Specific Issues

1. Failure to Provide Sufficient Detail of the Claim

The Letter of Claim does not specify whether the claim is based on contract, trespass, or another cause of action, nor does it clarify whether the client is pursuing me as the driver or registered keeper. These omissions hinder any meaningful engagement and breach the PAPDC.

2. Refusal to Provide Key Documents

DCB Legal refused to supply:

• The client’s contract with the landowner,
• Evidence of signage at the time of the alleged contravention,
• An explanation of the legal basis for the £70 “debt recovery” charge.

3. Misleading Demand for Additional Charges

DCB Legal has attempted to recover an added £70 which appears to be for “debt recovery” or staff time. This charge is not supported by the contract nor by established legal precedent (Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson [2020]). No attempt has been made to identify a valid legal basis for it.

4. Misleading Reference to VAT Treatment

The response included an explanation referencing the VAT Supply and Consideration Manual, implying that the PCN falls outside the scope of VAT. This raises further questions about whether the charge is being pleaded as contractual consideration or as a penalty/damages, yet no clarity was provided.

Breaches of SRA Principles and Code of Conduct

I believe this conduct breaches the following regulatory standards:

• SRA Principle 1: Failure to uphold the rule of law by issuing defective legal threats.
• SRA Principle 2: Undermining public trust in the profession through misleading and incomplete correspondence.
• SRA Principle 5: Acting without integrity, given DCB Legal’s knowledge and experience in handling thousands of similar parking claims.
• SRA Code of Conduct Rule 1.2(d) and 11.1: Taking unfair advantage of an individual by failing to comply with pre-action obligations.

I request that the SRA review this matter and consider whether DCB Legal’s conduct amounts to a breach of professional obligations. This appears to be part of a wider pattern of issuing non-compliant letters of claim, making misleading representations about costs, and attempting to pressure consumers into payment without proper legal grounding.

Please let me know if any further information or documentation is required.

Yours faithfully,

[Your full name]
[Your postal address]
[Your email address]
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on June 19, 2025, 01:44:52 pm
Sharing the latest correspondence from our friends at DCB Legal below.  The evidence referenced as attached is the same they previously provided via letters (photos of the vehicle entering / exiting the car park; copy of original Parking Charge letter; copy of my original appeal letter and their response).

Quote
We write in response to your correspondence received in our office on 23rd May 2025.

It is our position that the Letter of Claim (LOC) is compliant with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (the Protocol). The LOC provides adequate information for you to identify the debt that our Client is seeking to recover.

However, as per your request, please find attached the evidence we hold concerning the Parking Charge issued on 8th November 2024. If there are any documents that you have requested, but that are not enclosed with this email, it is because we have deemed the request to be disproportionate and/or not relevant to the substantive issues in dispute.

The sum added is a contribution to the actual costs incurred by our Client as a result of your non-payment. Our Client’s employees have spent time and material attempting to recover the debt. This is not our Client’s usual business and the resources could have been better spent in other areas of the business. Had you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased.

Please note, the HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that Parking Charges fall out of the scope of VAT. 

For the avoidance of doubt, DCB Legal have now been instructed to pursue you as all previous attempts to resolve the matter have been unsuccessful.

You now have 30 days from the date of this email to make payment of the outstanding balance of £170.00. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference.

Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: -
•   Account Name: xx
•   Sort Code: xx
•   Account Number: xx

You must quote the correct case reference (xx) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred.

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on xx to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/.

Kind Regards,
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: b789 on June 08, 2025, 01:30:58 pm
No reason not to give them that info if you want receive any communication by email rather than only by post.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on June 08, 2025, 12:06:42 pm
First correspondence from DCB Legal below.  Assume no reason not to respond with requested details?

Quote
Dear Sirs,
 
We thank you for your recent email.
 
We take the confidentiality of our matters very seriously and as a result, we ask you to answer the following security questions in full before we can correspond with you via email.
 
Please could you confirm 
•   Your full name
•   First line of your address
•   Postcode

By responding to this email, you consent for us to use this email address for communication in relation to your case, this may contain information that is personal to you. When communicating by email, please remember that it may be ‘unsecure’. If at any time, you no longer wish for your personal information to be communicated by email, or you no longer have access to this mailbox, please notify us immediately.
 
Should you prefer to discuss this matter on the telephone, please do not hesitate to contact us on xxx.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on May 18, 2025, 08:15:33 pm
Can't argue with that.  Email sent, will keep you posted..
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: b789 on May 18, 2025, 08:06:47 pm
Don’t overthink this. You do not use any of the forms they included with the LoC. You do not have to pay anything. Just because some private company says you must pay something, why do you imagine that it has any lawful weight behind it?

You, the known Keeper, were issued with a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company for an alleged breach of contract by an unknown driver. You wrongly engaged with them as the known Keeper when they had no idea who the liable entity was. The unknown driver is always liable and they can only transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known Keeper if they fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA... or the known Keeper tells them, inadvertently or otherwise.

Whilst that element of defence has gone, if you follow the advice, this will never reach a hearing in court. You are dealing with scammers who will push this to litigation in the hope that you are low hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will eventually pay up out of ignorance and fear.
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on May 18, 2025, 06:47:01 pm
No windscreen NtD was issued, the PCN letter was first notification received.  Sadly, you are correct about driver and keeper identity having been blabbed already..  consider me now educated!!

Thank you very much for the speedy and detailed response, I'll proceed as you advise.  Just before I do, the LoC states "you should either make payment [...] or complete the Reply Form and financial statement" - I assume no concerns if I skip this part and go direct via email because you're essentially saying I can't formally respond to the LoC until they've provided sufficient information, right?
Title: Re: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: b789 on May 18, 2025, 04:47:24 pm
Oh dear... SNAFU.

I am assuming that the drivers identity has been blabbed, when there was no legal obligation to do so.

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) states that they are relaying on paragraph 8(2)(b) of PoFA to hold the Keeper liable. They can only rely on PoFA paragraph 8 if they have have previously issued a windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD) under PoFA paragraph 7. Was there an NtD affixed to the vehicle?

An NtK cannot be issued under PoFA paragraph 8 less than 28 days after the date of the alleged contravention, or later than 56 days after it. This NtK has been issued only 10 days after the date of the alleged contravention.

However, all that was blown out the window when the Keeper identified as the driver simply by using "I did this or that" rather than referring to the driver in the third person with "the driver did this or that".

Never mind. You still have a saving grace which is that they are using the incompetents at DCB Legal to file a claim.

As long as you follow the advice from now and don't deviate, you can guarantee with greater than 99% certainty, that the claim, which will definitely be filed, will eventually be either struck out or discontinued.

For now, I advise you to respond to the Letter of Claim (LoC) by email to info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself, with the following:

Quote
Subject: Response to your Letter of Claim. Your ref: [insert their ref no.]

Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver as per VCS v Edward (2023) [H0KF6C9C] (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yvxek3kfwtb3qent3lj6y/VCS-Limited-v-Ian-Mark-Edward-H0KF6C9C.pdf?rlkey=niecohfdtj1n1ysh5prbsp52p&e=1&dl=0).

If your client is seeking to rely on Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) in order to hold me liable as keeper, they are unable to do so. The initial Notice to Keeper was not received, as I had moved address and the V5C logbook had not yet been updated with the DVLA at the time of the alleged contravention. As such, no PoFA-compliant NtK was served within the timeframes required by paragraph 9(5) of the Act. Even if your client were to issue or re-send a copy now, it would be well outside the statutory period and would not remedy the defect. Your client is therefore unable to rely on PoFA to establish keeper liability.

As your client cannot pursue me as driver or keeper, it would be an abuse of the court’s process for your client to issue a claim against me and I will defend any such claim vigorously and seek costs in relation to your client’s unreasonable and vexatious conduct under Part 27.14(2)(g)


Because your letter lacks specificity and breaches the requirements of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2) as well as the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)), you must treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents/information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction and the Pre-Action Protocol for debt claims and your client, as a serial litigator of debt claims, should likewise be aware of them. As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is embarrassing that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter of Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the Pre-Action Protocol.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; for how long it is claimed the vehicle was parked, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. If the claim is for a contractual breach, photographs showing the vehicle was parked in contravention of said contract.
7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).
9. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
10. Photographs of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed) at the time of any alleged contravention.
11. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
12. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
13. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]

Remember, follow the advice and you won't be paying a penny to BaySentry. Make sure you show us any response and the N1SDT Claim Form when it arrives. Redact only your personal details, Claim number and MCOL password. Leave ALL dates and times showing.
Title: PCN BaySentry Solutions - No Valid Parking permit - CitiPark Gade Car Park, Watford
Post by: markeman on May 18, 2025, 03:20:34 pm
Hi folks - the situation..




Many thanks in advance for thoughts and steer on next steps from the experts here!

[attachment deleted by admin]