Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Mercdriver on October 02, 2023, 02:55:41 pm
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;D
The Appellant is represented by Mr Morgan.
The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was in a bus lane when in Northolt Road/Alexandra Avenue on 18 September 2023 at 20.23.
Approval from the Secretary of State for the type of prescribed device used for this bus lane enforcement is a requirement under paragraph 7(2) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (the 1996 Act) for the Authority's camera evidence to be admissible in these appeal proceedings.
There is no evidence presented by the Authority showing type approval for the prescribed device at the time of the contravention. Further, Mr Morgan has required the attendance of the appeals officer in the case, Ms Solanki, to deal with issues arising from the type approval of the camera device used to capture the contravention,
Further, I find that the statement submitted by the Authority from the Camera Enforcement Officer does not satisfy the requirement under paragraph 7(2) of Schedule 1 to the 1996 Act.
Accordingly, I am not satisfied that there was type approval for the camera device used from the Secretary of State. Further, the witness Ms S Solanki has not attended in spite of the notice that was given to her on 20 March 2023, and copied to the Tribunal. This renders her evidence in her witness statement to be inadmissible pursuant to paragraph 7 (6) of Schedule 1 of the 1996 Act.
It follows that the evidence from the camera is not shown to be admissible and that there is, therefore, no evidence of the Appellant's vehicle being in contravention of a bus lane restrictions.
The appeal is allowed.
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@cp8759 - thanks for posting the camera details. Does the camera type help or hinder an appeal?
It closes off one possible ground of appeal, but there are many other avenues. The easiest way to win this is to require the council to attend the hearing, if they don't they lose and they don't like turning up so they hardly ever do.
They do not name the camera in the WS. Also, the VCA certificate applies to another system. TES.
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Cases in support: https://bit.ly/2ALghSS
Adjudications - key cases 541-554
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Apparently, the Police cannot enforce. :D
And the extra grounds are "helpful" and "not impropriety".
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Game on.
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Bumping this thread for the OP to decide.
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Dear Sirs
Ref PCN: HR93423974
VRM: VU13DMY
I acknowledge receipt of the Enforcement Notice and make these formal representations as follows:
1. I require you to consider my original challenge as formal representations.
2. I further make the following collateral challenge in that the TWOC ground clearly limits to theft and therefore does not correctly express the statutory ground because a relative or friend may have taken the vehicle without consent, which does not necessitate an obligation to report such circumstance to the Police.
3. Referring to this
(https://i.imgur.com/o00r5Na.png)
from your website, this also departs from the statutory scheme by the inclusion of grounds which do not pertain to the relevant legislation:
4. The following document
(https://i.imgur.com/wkvkMEA.jpg)
contains two fatal errors in that it states that an Enforcement Notice will automatically follow which fetters discretion and demonstrates yet another departure from the legislation at Part II @ https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted and also a nonsensical date in which to pay the PCN.
5. The Enforcement Notice does not include the ground that the Police are taking action @ https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/9/enacted
In view of the above, please cancel the PCN and EN.
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This is fate. So, can you please post it up and/or send it to me privately as you wish? I will draft some response.
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And as luck would have it - it arrived in the post today.
The initial letter rejecting my claim was dated 30th Oct, the Enforcement Letter is dated Dec 18th - should they have sent it sooner?
Cheers
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Just wait for the Enforcement Notice and don't worry please.
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Have you checked the online status/history of the PCN?
Just says £130 outstanding.
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Have you checked the online status/history of the PCN?
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Just realised that I haven't received an Enforcement Notice form yet... The rejection letter was dated 30th Oct so I would have expected something by now.
We did change the registration plate on the car in early November but that shouldn't have had any impact on this.
Should I chase it up or just leave it? I'm happy of it goes away, but equally I wouldn't want to run up a massive debt.
Cheers
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No worries! It is good to help someone who does not roll over and pay! PM sent.
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Another hole dug: automatically receive the Enforcement Notice flies in the face of the law.
The law states "may" serve an EN.
4.3(e): https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted
I am happy to take care of this one if it goes to the Tribunal.
Is that all the letter? I advise waiting for the Enforcement Notice and then a substantial representation can be made.
Thanks. The reverse side of the letter has a phone number for payment and is signed off by "Parking Representations Officer".
Appreciate you volunteering to take it if it goes to tribunal.
Just waiting for the time to elapse...
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@cp8759 - thanks for posting the camera details. Does the camera type help or hinder an appeal?
It closes off one possible ground of appeal, but there are many other avenues. The easiest way to win this is to require the council to attend the hearing, if they don't they lose and they don't like turning up so they hardly ever do.
Or they will adduce as evidence ca. 5 certificates, some to do with parking law!
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PCN date: 28th September.
Rejection letter date: 30th October.
This states: "You can pay £130 within 28 days of the date shown on your PCN".
In view of this, perhaps Harrow would accept a payment from Doctor Who? ::)
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I highly doubt the council has considered any evidence, they just have a templated letter that says all the signs are as they should be. Definitely wait for the enforcement notice.
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Another hole dug: automatically receive the Enforcement Notice flies in the face of the law.
The law states "may" serve an EN.
4.3(e): https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted
I am happy to take care of this one if it goes to the Tribunal.
Is that all the letter? I advise waiting for the Enforcement Notice and then a substantial representation can be made.
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Show us the thanks/no thanks letter. When we see it, the usual advice is to wait for the Enforcement Notice.
The signage appears to be the main issue in dispute. I assume you have pictures?
Hi
Here is the letter, just redacted name and address.
I don't have pictures yet, but I will get some. I used Google Maps to see what signage there was/is along the road initially.
(https://i.imgur.com/wkvkMEA.jpg)
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Hi again
What is the best option to pick from this list?
Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/o00r5Na.png)
There are extra irrelevant grounds which is also another ground of appeal. One of them is even poorly expressed.
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@cp8759 - thanks for posting the camera details. Does the camera type help or hinder an appeal?
It closes off one possible ground of appeal, but there are many other avenues. The easiest way to win this is to require the council to attend the hearing, if they don't they lose and they don't like turning up so they hardly ever do.
They didn't in the case I did a few months ago; but, they did write bunkum in response to the costs application, which they also lost.
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Show us the thanks/no thanks letter. When we see it, the usual advice is to wait for the Enforcement Notice.
The signage appears to be the main issue in dispute. I assume you have pictures?
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What's my next step here then?
Thanks
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I think the TMO is The Harrow (Bus Priority) Traffic Order 2016 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1g7zUVgywOmhufM4DUZmWzSbqffg_ZC51).
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@cp8759 - thanks for posting the camera details. Does the camera type help or hinder an appeal?
It closes off one possible ground of appeal, but there are many other avenues. The easiest way to win this is to require the council to attend the hearing, if they don't they lose and they don't like turning up so they hardly ever do.
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As predicted, in the post today, I received a 'thanks, but no' letter - as in, they are not cancelling it.
They state that there is an advance warning sign clearly stating the impending restriction - this is complete rubbish. As I said in my dispute wording, the Bus Lane operates within specific hours along the main road, then stops and reverts to all traffic and as you go into the junction there is a 24/7 Bus Lane with a sign at the beginning of the lane. And its very short, the road reverts to all traffic very shortly afterwards.
I have the option of paying the discounted charge or formally challenging the PCN.
Thoughts?
@cp8759 - thanks for posting the camera details. Does the camera type help or hinder an appeal?
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The camera is a ZenGrab LaneWatch Mk2.
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The appeal is in, just waiting for response now...
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The alleged contravention did not occur.
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Hi again
What is the best option to pick from this list?
Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/o00r5Na.png)
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Yes.
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Should I go ahead and enter this challenge?
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That's a good challenge as it has won here on many occasions, but the council will reject it along with anything else you say at this stage
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OK, here goes:
I was travelling along the road inside a Bus Lane that has operational hours of 7-10am & 4-7pm Mon-Fri. That Bus Lane ends and the lane goes back to normal - as in, all traffic can use it all the time.
As I travelled around the bend in the road, I found myself in a new Bus Lane which operates At All Hours, but the sign is only visible once you are already in the Bus Lane. The Bus Lane itself is very short - maybe the length of a bus - and there is no way to safely move into the adjacent lane without causing issues to other traffic. After the very short section of bus lane, the road returns to all traffic.
It seems odd that there is a very long stretch of bus lane that operates within given hours and even then only Mon-Fri, and then a very short section of bus lane which operates at all hours after the original bus lane has ended. This is made worse by the fact that the bus lane sign cannot be seen until you are already in the bus lane, thereby making it too late and dangerous to move out of the prohibited section. In fact, the sign is confusing as it can be interpreted that it refers to the bus lane that has already ended in the original lane.
I therefore challenge the PCN on the basis of incorrect and insufficient signage.
Please let me know if I'm on the right lines!
Thanks
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Just have a go in your own words and we'll tidy it up for you.
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Please do.
Thanks - is there a template that I can use or follow? Or any examples that I can base it on?
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Please do.
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I'll find out the make and model of the camera, in the meantime try drafting a representation based on inadequate signage. Adjudicators have ruled against the council on the merits of the signage on more than one occasion, so that should be the starting point.
Thanks. Do you want me post the draft representation here?
Regards
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I'll find out the make and model of the camera, in the meantime try drafting a representation based on inadequate signage. Adjudicators have ruled against the council on the merits of the signage on more than one occasion, so that should be the starting point.
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There are often mistakes in the 'small print' of PCNs, which why it is a good idea to post the rest.
Fair enough...
(https://i.imgur.com/KJ9bUsR.jpg)
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There are often mistakes in the 'small print' of PCNs, which why it is a good idea to post the rest.
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There didn't seem to be a video, just some still images.
The rest of the PCN on the reverse just lists payment options.
The street view is here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/H1Xdcbkp5LfLgiUU9
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Please post rest of PCN, the video, and a GSV link to location.
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Hi
Received a PCN for Being in a Bus Lane in Northolt Road junction with Alexandra Avenue from Harrow Borough Council.
Observed by unattended camera.
Anyway, this junction seems to be notorious for going from a bus lane that operates within specified hours to a very short stretch that operates at all hours. The issue is, you don't see the sign until you are already in the lane and by then you cannot safely avoid it.
From reading previous posts, this section of bus lane is about long enough to accommodate a bus and that's it. After which it goes back to normal. Seems like sharp practice to me.
I am hoping that I can get some help/support as to the best way to challenge the PCN in terms of what to say/include etc.
PCN details:(https://i.imgur.com/kGEqHd0.jpg)
Thanks a lot