Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: saozgirl03 on May 13, 2025, 03:03:47 pm

Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on July 30, 2025, 03:29:13 pm
Perfect, I shall look into both your suggestions and in regards to complaining to PPS and then BPA I will post any response back from them here out of interest for anyone who wants to know!

Thank you all again - this forum is absolutely fantastic and keep up the amazing work you all do  :)
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on July 30, 2025, 02:46:38 pm
You can take the time to take part in the ongoing government consultation about getting this rogue industry regulated by statute, that is linked in my signature.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: DWMB2 on July 30, 2025, 01:59:24 pm
That's a surprisingly good assessment from the POPLA assessor... I say 'surprisingly' as they rarely accept the point around prohibitive signage, as if they regularly did so it would undermine the revenue model at many sites.

You could complain to the British Parking Association (you would first need to complain to PPS before the BPA will consider a complaint). I'd be surprised if they reach the same conclusion as the POPLA assessor, but it might be interesting to see what their response is.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on July 30, 2025, 01:53:22 pm
Hello all, just an update on the appeal and I have a huge thank you to send to everyone - especially to b789, your input was invaluable!!

The appeal was successful and I no longer have to worry over it until 'inevitably' the next time some idiot gives 'the driver' another ticket.

The grounds for allowing the appeal are below...

"This decision relates to PCN:****** The operator is a member of the British Parking Association (BPA), which uses a code of practice detailing the standards that it needs to uphold as a part of its membership - the Private Parking Single Code of Practice. It is the operator’s responsibility to demonstrate to POPLA that they have issued the PCN correctly. I am allowing this appeal, with my reasoning outlined below: Within their grounds of appeal, the appellant states that as the area does not permit parking at any time, no contract or agreement can be entered into as it fails the contractual basic test with no offer and no consideration, resulting in no contract. The signage on site states that no parking at any time is permitted and failure to comply would result in a £100 PCN. It must be recognised that the area in question does not permit motorists to park within the managed area as there are no parking facilities such as parking bays offered within this area. As parking is prohibited, I concur with the appellant that no parking contract could be entered into, and therefore the motorist would not have breached the terms of a contract that couldn’t be entered into. Accordingly, I allow this appeal. The appellant has raised other grounds in their appeal, but as I am allowing the appeal, it is not necessary for me to address these."

Shame they wouldn't take the time to address the other 6 points raised in the appeal!

Is there any other complaint that I could make against PPS for the scam they are running at Royal Victoria Docks?

I would be more than happy to waste more of my time doing that...lol  ;)
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on June 17, 2025, 01:37:38 pm
Lost for words bar one....AMAZING!

Thank you, I will put this into the link POPLA have sent on their last email and keep my fingers crossed.

TBC...
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on June 17, 2025, 01:03:03 pm
Here's a slightly more grammatically correct version which you can copy and paste into the webform response. No need for "Dear Assessor".

Quote
POPLA Appeal Rebuttal – Comments on Operator Evidence

In response to the evidence submitted by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd, I would like to highlight several factual errors and omissions which undermine their case.

1. The contract they rely on is signed by a leaseholder and includes a request to “provide a document or contract where states your authority over the site to be managed by us.” They have failed to provide any evidence that the leaseholder has authority from the landowner to enter into a contract with PPS. Without proof that the landowner has granted such rights, this contract is insufficient. Furthermore, PPS has provided no evidence that the land is not under statutory control. The area may fall under the control of Transport for London, the London Borough of Newham, or the Port of London Authority. If so, the land is excluded from Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, and keeper liability cannot apply.

2. PPS claims the vehicle was parked in a taxi rank. This is factually incorrect. Their own photographic evidence shows the vehicle was stopped in a bay marked “TAXI DROP OFF POINT ONLY.” A drop-off bay is not a taxi rank. According to Transport for London’s published parking guidance for private hire drivers, licensed PHVs are permitted to stop briefly to pick up or drop off passengers on red routes, including in designated drop-off bays, provided there is no signage stating otherwise. The vehicle stopped briefly to allow a pre-booked passenger to alight and then left. This complies with TfL’s rules. The relevant guidance is found on TfL’s website: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information.

3. PPS claim that stopping on a red route is prohibited and that only black cabs are exempt. This is false. Transport for London’s own published guidance confirms that licensed private hire vehicles may stop on single and double red lines to pick up or drop off passengers, even in areas with waiting or loading restrictions, as long as there is no signage explicitly prohibiting stopping. The vehicle was a TfL-licensed PHV and was performing a lawful drop-off, consistent with TfL’s rules. This is confirmed in TfL’s Private Hire Vehicle Driver’s Handbook and on their official webpage: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information.

4. PPS argues that the driver is not entitled to the five-minute consideration period because the vehicle was parked in a taxi rank. As already shown, this is false. The bay is a taxi drop-off point, not a rank. Therefore, their entire justification for denying the consideration period is based on a misrepresentation of the location. The photos show the vehicle was on site for only 2 minutes and 35 seconds. This is less than the required minimum five-minute consideration period set out in the Private Parking Single Code of Practice. Without evidence of the vehicle being parked for more than the minimum consideration period, there is no evidence of a contract being formed by conduct, even if the signs were not prohibitory.

5. The signage is prohibitory. It states, “No parking, waiting, loading or unloading on the roads and footpaths at any time.” This is not an offer to park under any conditions and cannot form the basis of a contract. Even a POPLA assessor should know that for a contract to be formed by conduct, basic contract law requires three essential elements: offer, acceptance, and consideration. In this case, the sign does not contain any offer that a motorist can accept. It is purely a prohibition and does not invite any action or provide any alternative conditions under which stopping or parking is permitted. There is no consideration being offered in return for compliance or any reference to a charge being incurred for breaching terms. PPS claims that a contract was formed, but the wording on the sign contradicts that and fails to satisfy the legal test. This principle was confirmed in PCM v Bull (2016), where the court held that a prohibitory notice cannot give rise to contractual liability.

6. PPS fails to address the point made in my original appeal that set-down is not parking. Instead, they continue to rely on their incorrect description of the area as a taxi rank. Their own evidence contradicts this.

7. PPS suggests that because I have not named the driver, I am liable. This is incorrect. They must meet all conditions of PoFA to hold the keeper liable. They have not shown that a 'period of parking' beyond the minimum consideration period which according to the persuasive appellate case of Brennan v PPS (this same operator) has been evidenced in order to comply with PoFA 9(20(a) has been met. They have not demonstrated that the land is relevant under PoFA, nor have they complied with all other PoFA requirements. There is also no legal basis to presume that the keeper was the driver. In VCS v Edward (2023), the court confirmed that a keeper cannot be assumed to be the driver simply because they do not identify who was driving.

In conclusion, PPS has failed to prove that the land is relevant land, failed to show a period of parking beyond the minimum consideration period, failed to produce evidence of landowner authority, misrepresented the location, ignored the TfL exemptions for PHVs, denied the consideration period based on a false claim, relied on prohibitory signage, and made an incorrect assumption about keeper liability. The vehicle was lawfully stopped in a bay marked for drop-off only, not parked. The charge should be cancelled.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on June 17, 2025, 11:42:55 am
Thank you, I have found one that you drafted for someone not too long ago for the same parking operator.

I've tweaked a few things here and there so this is now what I have drafted. I will be completely frank though...in regards to the first point - I've got no comprehension on that argument. Nor have I managed to get me head wrapped around the ins and outs of PoFA compliance.

The email I received from POPLA giving me the chance to respond withing 7 days to PPS lies was dated 11th June so I believe that today is the last day for me to reply, which I am keen to do. I can see by the many, many other posts that you are all very, very busy people but I would (and am) extremely grateful for the time you all put in to help and seek that assistance again today so I can finalise all of this and send it to POPLA.

Many thanks!


Dear Assessor,

In rebut to the evidence submitted by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd, I would like to highlight various factual errors and bring to your attention several key points they have failed to address.

Firstly, I have seen that the contract that Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on clearly states:

“Leaseholders: Please provide a document or contract where states your authority over the site to be managed by us”

As they have signed as the 'leaseholder', you must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to strict poof that their client can show the document that gives them authority to authorise Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to operate at the location. The copy of the agreement on its own does not evidence authority flowing from the landowner to the leaseholder to sign contracts in its own name. There has been no evidence supplied to prove that the land is not under statutory control or part of highways and therefore can not be deemed relevant land under PoFA.

Secondly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on a contravention having occurred by the driver parking in a Taxi Rank marked with double red lines.

“In the present case, the driver parked on a taxi rank marked with double red lines”

You must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to strict proof of this evidence as this is factually incorrect. The evidence supplied by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd clearly shows the Private Hire Vehicle in a ‘Taxi drop off point only’ marked bay with double red lines. 

Thirdly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on a contravention having occurred by a Private Hire Vehicle stopping on a red route.

“Additionally, there are double red lines on the road, indicating that stopping, parking, loading/unloading or boarding and alighting from a vehicle is prohibited. While red routes are commonly associated with public roads managed by Transport for London (TfL), the rules regarding parking restrictions on red routes also apply when such markings and signage are present on private land.” “In the present case, an exception is provided for taxis”

You must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to clarify this statement as it is factually incorrect. It is not only London Black Taxi’s which are exempt from Transport for London parking restrictions. From December 17, 2007 Private Hire Vehicles in London were granted an exemption for red routes. To quote Section 6 of Transport for London's Private Hire Vehicle Drivers Handbook V1 – Parking and Driving in London:

“Stopping and waiting - Private hire drivers can stop to pick up or drop off passengers in many areas where there are rules in place to limit waiting or stopping. 

You can pick up or drop off passengers: 

On single and double red lines 

On single and double yellow lines 

In places where loading is not allowed (shown by markings on the kerb) 

In most parking bays

In most bus lanes, although you should avoid this if possible as it might delay or obstruct buses.”

Fourthly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on the driver being parked in the Taxi Rank (contradictory evidence see point 1) as verification to waiver the 5 minute observation period.

“the driver cannot benefit from the 5-minute consideration, as it does not apply in strictly no-parking areas.”

You must put to Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to differentiate the regulations between a bay marked ‘Taxi Rank’ and a bay marked ‘Taxi Drop off Point Only’ and clarify the minimum 5 minute consideration period observation between the two. I have only read their definition of the regulations regarding a ‘Taxi Rank’ which are immaterial to this case – as the driver did not park in a Taxi Rank.

Fithly, the signage is prohibitory. The sign clearly states, “No parking, waiting, loading or unloading on the roads and footpaths at any time.” This is not an invitation to park under certain conditions. It is a clear prohibition. A contract cannot be formed from prohibitive terms as I explained in my original appeal. The case of PCM v Bull (2016) confirmed that a prohibitory notice cannot form the basis of a contractual agreement. The operator claims a contract was formed, but this contradicts the content of the signage and applicable case law.

Sixthly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd failed to address point 5 in my appeal, “Set-down is Not Parking”. They are relying on their false statement that the Private Hire Vehicle had been parked in a Taxi Rank which is governed by strict rules. Their own photographic evidence contradicts this.

Seventhly, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd claims that because I did not name the driver, I have assumed liability. This is incorrect. The burden is on the operator to comply with all of the conditions in Schedule 4 of PoFA in order to transfer liability to the keeper. As shown above, they have failed to do so. There is no presumption that the keeper is the driver. VCS v Edward (2023) confirmed that a keeper cannot be held liable simply because they were not able to name the driver.
 
To conclude – Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd has unsuccessfully argued the points made in my appeal. The driver did not “choose to ignore the terms and remain on red route” they were not governed by the terms of the red route through dispensation from Transport for London. The driver did not park in a Taxi Rank, rather they set down a pre booked fare in the appropriate ‘Taxi drop off point only’ bay and were not given the minimum 5-minute observation grace period. Their signage is prohibitory and cannot support a claim based on contract law and Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd have not definitively proven that PoFA applies and is therefore non-compliant. Given the points and facts above, I urge you to allow the appeal and cancel the Parking Charge.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on June 16, 2025, 07:33:35 pm
Sorry, I didn't read back far enough. Your response to the operators evidence can only be plain text. There is no formatting and I doubt that any POPLA assessor will follow any links you put in.

Simply go through each point in your appeal that the operator has not rebutted or answered and point this out to the assessor. Also, go through any points raised by the operator that were not in your appeal and rebut those.

There is a 10,000 character limit for the submission you put in but that should be more than enough. You can search for other POPLA appeals on here where I have provided a copy and paste text for the appellant to use for their rebuttal of the operators evidence. Find a few of those to see how they ave been argued.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on June 16, 2025, 07:24:21 pm
Thanks b789 - what you have quoted in your last post is what was sent to POPLA in my initial appeal. So my last post is what my response back to the evidence that PPS have submitted to my appeal to POPLA which I have 7 days (from June 11th) to respond to. So forgive me for my confusion but do I send this again to POPLA as my response to what PPS have written which was....

"Dear Assessor,

According to the documents provided by the landowner and uploaded for review, the land in question is private land.
The contract that we are seeking payment on has arisen from a breach of the notified terms and conditions of parking stated on the signs that the landowner has requested us to erect and permitted to remain erected at this location. The evidence demonstrates that the signage is clearly located to make motorists aware of the terms and conditions, and the potential consequences of non-adherence to the terms have been made fully available. A prominent entrance sign, facing the oncoming traffic, makes clear that parking on red routes is not allowed (NO PARKING ON RED ROUTE) and refers users to further signs within the site. The signage states “Red Route. No parking at any time. This private land is controlled by Wardens. If you fail to comply with any of the terms and conditions stated below you agree to pay a £100 Parking Charge Notice. No parking/waiting/loading/unloading on red routes or pedestrian footpaths. By parking on this private land you agree to comply with these terms and conditions (the parking contract) and accept liability to pay the fee for unauthorised parking." Additionally, there are double red lines on the road, indicating that stopping, parking, loading/unloading or boarding and alighting from a vehicle is prohibited.  While red routes are commonly associated with public roads managed by Transport for London (TfL), the rules regarding parking restrictions on red routes also apply when such markings and signage are present on private land. In the present case, an exception is provided for taxis, which are known for their ability to be hailed on the street without pre-booking. These taxis are licensed by local councils or relevant authorities and must adhere to specific standards. London's traditional black cabs, although now available in other colours, are a prime example of this type of taxi.
Private Hire Vehicles (PHVs), sometimes called "minicabs," must be booked in advance and cannot use taxi ranks. According to Transport for London (TfL) regulations, PHVs are not permitted to stop or park on taxi ranks at any time, even to pick up or drop off passengers. While taxis may be granted certain exemptions on private land or public roads, any exceptions for taxis do not extend to PHVs. PHV drivers need to be aware of these distinctions to ensure compliance with parking restrictions and avoid parking charges.
In the present case, the driver parked on a taxi rank marked with double red lines, meaning that any other vehicle except a taxi is not permitted to park, wait or load/unload in the area; the driver cannot benefit from the 5-minute consideration, as it does not apply in strictly no-parking areas. By choosing to ignore the terms and remain on red route, the driver contravened the parking contract and became liable for a parking charge.
It is important to note that the operator does not have to issue a notice directly to the driver of the vehicle, as it can hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. The evidence shows that the keeper was invited to identify the driver, but does not indicate that they provided us with the relevant information to transfer liability to the driver. By failing to provide the driver's details, the appellant has assumed liability for this PCN."

or something along the lines of my previous post which was....

To the Assessor,

In rebut to the comments made by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd, I would like to bring to your attention several points.

 

I have seen that the contract that Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on clearly states:

“Leaseholders: Please provide a document or contract where states your authority over the site to be managed by us”

As they have signed as the 'leaseholder', you must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to strict poof that their client can show the document that gives them authority to authorise Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to operate at the location. The copy of the agreement on its own does not evidence authority flowing from the landowner to the leaseholder to sign contracts in its own name.

 

Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on a contravention having occurred by the driver parking in a Taxi Rank marked with double red lines.

   “In the present case, the driver parked on a taxi rank marked with double red lines”

You must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to strict proof of this evidence. The evidence supplied by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd shows the Private Hire Vehicle in a ‘Taxi drop off point only’ marked bay with double red lines. A Taxi Rank is adjacent to where the driver set down see google map link

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Excel+London/@51.5086088,0.0251321,3a,75y,92.82h,57.36t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sqmUE7TGjEvvq4Zt2eSONNw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D32.63670126946809%26panoid%3DqmUE7TGjEvvq4Zt2eSONNw%26yaw%3D92.8199944194477!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x47d8a80ce609e50d:0xa0de5f705d7aec7!8m2!3d51.5084601!4d0.029846!16zL20vMDR4ZG0w?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYwOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D 

 

Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on a contravention having occurred by a Private Hire Vehicle stopping on a red route.

   “Additionally, there are double red lines on the road, indicating that stopping, parking,    loading/unloading or boarding and alighting from a vehicle is prohibited.  While red    routes are commonly associated with public roads managed by Transport for London (TfL), the rules regarding parking restrictions on red routes also apply when such markings and signage are present on private land.” “In the present case, an exception    is provided for taxis”

You must put Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to clarify this statement. It is not only London Black Taxi’s which are exempt from Transport for London parking restrictions. From December 17, 2007 Private Hire Vehicles in London were granted an exemption for red routes. To quote Section 6 of Transport for Londons Private Hire Vehicle Drivers Handbook V1 – Parking and Driving in London:

Stopping and waiting - Private hire drivers can stop to pick up or drop off passengers in many areas where there are rules in place to limit waiting or stopping. You need to remember that: • PHV drivers should not stop in any place where they might stop other    vehicles moving or be a danger to other road users. • PHV drivers must not stop on zig-zaglines (for example, by pedestrian crossings, outside schools) You should check what signage is displayed about stopping or waiting and make sure you understand and follow the instructions: • You can pick up or drop off passengers: - On single and double red    lines - On single and double yellow lines - In places where loading is not allowed (shown by markings on the kerb) - In most parking bays - In most bus lanes, although you should avoid    this if possible as it might delay or obstruct buses.

 

Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd are relying on the driver being parked in the Taxi Rank (contradictory evidence see point 1) as verification to waiver the 5 minute observation period.

   “the driver cannot benefit from the 5-minute consideration, as it does not apply in strictly no-parking areas.”

You must put to Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to differentiate the regulations between a bay marked ‘Taxi Rank’ and a bay marked ‘Taxi Drop off Point Only’ and clarify the minimum 5 minute consideration period observation between the two. I have only read their definition of the regulations regarding a ‘Taxi Rank’ which are immaterial to this case – as the driver did not park in a Taxi Rank.

 

In conclusion, the driver did not “choose to ignore the terms and remain on red route” they were not governed by the terms of the red route through dispensation from Transport for London. The driver did not park in a Taxi Rank, rather they set down a pre booked fare in the appropriate ‘Taxi drop off point only’ bay and were not given the minimum 5-minute observation grace period. Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd have not definitively proven that PoFA applies and I urge you to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.

Please ease my confusion....thanks very much.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on June 16, 2025, 06:50:43 pm
I'd suggest something more along these lines but you can edit the reference to the TfL rules is there is something more specific that applies to point #4:

Quote
1. Land Likely Not “Relevant Land” Under PoFA – No Keeper Liability

The Notice to Keeper was issued by post, and the operator seeks to rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) to pursue the Keeper. However, the location — Royal Victoria Dock, 1 Western Gateway, London, E16 1XL — raises serious doubt as to whether the land qualifies as “relevant land.”

There are multiple indicators that the area is under statutory control, and therefore excluded under Paragraph 3 of PoFA:

• Double red lines are present, which usually fall under Transport for London regulation.
• location is part of the Royal Docks area, potentially falling under the Port of London Authority (PLA) jurisdiction.
• The surrounding roads may be adopted highway or under Newham Council traffic regulation orders.

If the area is part of the public highway or under control of a statutory traffic authority (e.g. TfL, the local authority, or PLA), it is not relevant land under PoFA. The operator has provided no evidence to show otherwise. Therefore, they cannot pursue the Keeper, and the PCN must be cancelled unless the operator can definitively prove that PoFA applies.

2. The Notice to Keeper is not PoFA 2012 compliant

A single timestamped observation of a stationary vehicle lasting less than the minimum consideration period of 5 minutes is not a "period of parking." Even if multiple photos show the same timestamp or a short sequence, that still does not constitute a proper "period". The courts have made it clear that in order to be able to comply with paragraph 9(2)(a) of PoFA, there must be evidence of actual parking activity over a meaningful interval. This was confirmed in Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) [H6DP632H], where the judge ruled that a single timestamp or momentary observation is not sufficient.

3. Contradictory Road Markings – Red Route vs. Drop-Off Bay

The ground markings are self-contradictory:

• A solid double red line runs along the kerb, which signifies no stopping at any time.
• Directly alongside that is a white dashed bay marked “TAXI DROP OFF POINT ONLY”.

This is nonsensical. The motorist is both told they cannot stop at all and must stop (to drop off). These two messages cannot co-exist lawfully or logically.

Such inconsistency creates legal ambiguity and is a breach of consumer protection law — specifically, the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Sch. 2, para 10 — which prohibits enforcement based on unclear or ambiguous terms. No driver can be expected to comply with contradictory markings, and no fair contract can arise in such a situation.

4. Signage is 100% Prohibitory – No Contract Can Be Formed

The only visible sign states:

NO PARKING AT ANY TIME... no stopping... no waiting... no loading/unloading...”

This is a prohibitory sign. It offers no contractual alternative, no invitation to park, and no consideration. It is not capable of forming a contract.

In private parking enforcement, the signage must communicate clear terms and offer a driver the opportunity to accept them. Here, the sign communicates only forbiddance, not offer. That makes any claim of contractual liability untenable.

5. Driver Was a TfL-Licensed PHV Lawfully Dropping Off in a Designated Bay

The vehicle was a TfL-licensed Private Hire Vehicle (PHV), displaying a valid TfL licence disc. The driver is also registered with TfL and was actively working at the time.

They dropped off a passenger and received another fare nearby at 13:04. This short stop was lawful and standard for PHV operation.

The bay is explicitly marked “TAXI DROP OFF POINT ONLY”. There is nothing on the sign or road to prohibit PHVs from stopping. In practice, across London, PHVs use taxi drop-off points routinely, unless expressly restricted.

TfL’s official guidance confirms this:

“Private hire vehicles can pick up and drop off passengers anywhere that this is permitted... but must not wait for passengers.”

(https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information)

The driver complied with this. They did not park or wait — they dropped off a fare in a marked drop-off bay and left. This was a lawful action, and enforcement in this context is without justification.

6. Jopson v Homeguard – Set-Down is Not Parking

In Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd (2016) [B9QZ4H3R], it was held that:

“Stopping briefly to allow a passenger to board or alight is not ‘parking’.”

This case is directly on point. The driver remained in the vehicle with the engine running. There was no parking, no abandonment of the vehicle, no waiting. The action was lawful, necessary, and reasonable. No contravention occurred.

7. Minimum Consideration Period Not Breached

Photographic evidence shows that:

• First photo was taken at 13:04:16
• Final photo at 13:06:51
• Total time observed: 2 minutes 35 seconds

Section 5.1 of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (Feb 2025) states:

“A minimum 5-minute consideration period must be given to allow a driver to read the terms and conditions on signage before entering into a contract.”

Even if a contract could have been formed (it couldn't — see points 2 & 3), the operator has not shown that the driver remained on site for longer than the minimum 5 minutes required to be able to form a contract by condut. The burden of proof lies with them.

8. Keeper Not Liable – Driver Not Identified

Since this land is not relevant under PoFA, the Keeper cannot be held liable.

Furthermore, the driver has not been identified, and there is no legal presumption that the Keeper was the driver. In VCS v Edward (2023), HHJ Gargan stated:

“Simply because somebody is the registered keeper does not mean, on balance of probability, they were driving...”

The operator has provided no evidence of who was driving. They cannot hold the Keeper liable and cannot prove driver liability either.

Conclusion

• The land is almost certainly under statutory control — PoFA does not apply.
• The NtK is not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA.
• Road markings contradict each other — enforcement is impossible.
• Signage is entirely prohibitory — no contract can arise.
• The driver was a TfL-licensed PHV dropping off and picking up in a marked bay — a lawful action.
• The brief stop is not “parking” (Jopson).
• The 5-minute consideration period was not exceeded so no evidence of contract formation.
• No driver has been identified — Keeper liability fails.

This PCN is invalid on multiple grounds. I request that POPLA uphold this appeal and instruct the operator to cancel it.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on June 16, 2025, 06:09:20 pm
Ok, so this is my draft for POPLA...

https://1drv.ms/w/c/daf5930527c9e82a/Ef9Yn3nUuGhEvZyg_QRRHhEBX-y1UlJFBfhC3ukFvRlxGQ?e=aItlnE

I'd really appreciate any feedback on improvements/additions or retractions should what I've written sound like complete waffle...

I'm not the best on using modern technology so I'm not sure about the link above so I have also saved the draft as a pdf (this I do know how to do) and attached it below

Many thanks over and over and over again!!



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on June 16, 2025, 12:30:40 pm
Noted - thanks for the heads up!

I seriously wish I had just 1% of the knowledge and know how of all of you that help everyone. I would no doubt find this much easier to work out  :)


Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on June 16, 2025, 12:11:04 pm
I don't need to read those links. You have to extract the necessary sections and use them in your POPLA appeal. The operator will never, ever, under any circumstances, cancel a PCN. Why would they? No money in it for them if they do that.

POPLA are a supposedly independent appeals service but in reality, they are funded by the very firms they are adjudicating, so go figure how "independent" they really are. Also, you have no idea what, if any, legal training the assessor has. In many cases, it is evident to us that the assessor is a moron when it comes to interpreting contract law and even PoFA.

However, their appeal acceptance rate is probably around 40%, so worth appealing. If the appeal is unsuccessful, it doesn't matter as the decision is not binding on you. You would then move on to the next stage of the fight.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: DWMB2 on June 16, 2025, 12:06:06 pm
Is it a case of doing their work for them?
Yes. Why rely on the hope that the assessor will reach the correct conclusion on their own when you have the opportunity to try and lead them directly to it?
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on June 16, 2025, 12:00:28 pm
Thank you b789,

I'll be working on a better POPLA response today.

In regards to the TfL red route exemption please see these links...

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2007/december/licensed-minicabs-given-red-route-exemption

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/phv-driver-handbook-v1.pdf (the information is on page 26 section 6 Parking and Driving in London)

I am confused though as to why it is necessary to respond to POPLA at all? PPS have clearly stated the driver was parked in a TAXI RANK which they weren't and the photos PPS have supplied prove they weren't. Surely on those grounds alone they would dismiss it? Are POPLA completely neutral or are they sided towards the parking firms? Is it a case of doing their work for them?

The whole Excel area is plastered with red routes, there is no where for PHVs to drop off passengers - certainly not one that is designated for PHVs. What baffles me is the driver has dropped off passengers before and subsequently since without any issue.  ???
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on June 15, 2025, 05:11:23 pm
It's good but you need to lead the POPLA assessor by the nose to the reasons why the PCN has been issued incorrectly or in breach of any rules or laws. Make set of sub-titles and then flesh out each point.

For example, I have seen that the the contract PPS are relying on clearly states:

"Leaseholders: Please provide a document or contract where states your authority over the site to be managed by us."

As they have signed as the 'leaseholder', you must put PPS to strict poof that they client can show the document that gives them authority to authorise PPS to operate at the location. That copy of the agreement on its own does not evidence authority flowing from the landowner to the leaseholder to sign contracts in its own name.

Do you have a copy of the TfL rules that you say allow private hire drivers to stop on red lines to pick-up or set-down passengers?

Don't worry about them saying that the Keeper can be liable. They will try and bluff their way into wearing you down into paying up.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on June 15, 2025, 04:30:50 pm
Good afternoon to all - again - I'm ever grateful to any response/advice/information/help that you have all given.

I have been writing and re writing my rebuttal to POPLA and whilst I have many things going on in my head that I write down, I struggle to make heads or tails of it all.

So far I have this....

To the Assessor,

I rebute several points made by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd.

 

“In the present case, the driver parked on a taxi rank marked with double red lines, meaning that any other vehicle except a taxi is not permitted to park, wait or load/unload in the area; the driver cannot benefit from the 5-minute consideration, as it does not apply in strictly no-parking areas. By choosing to ignore the terms and remain on red route, the driver contravened the parking contract and became liable for a parking charge.”

This statement is factually incorrect. The driver set down in a ‘taxi drop off point only’ marked bay which is adjacent to the Taxi Rank (see google maps link for verification below)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Excel+London/@51.5086088,0.0251321,3a,75y,92.82h,57.36t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sqmUE7TGjEvvq4Zt2eSONNw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D32.63670126946809%26panoid%3DqmUE7TGjEvvq4Zt2eSONNw%26yaw%3D92.8199944194477!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x47d8a80ce609e50d:0xa0de5f705d7aec7!8m2!3d51.5084601!4d0.029846!16zL20vMDR4ZG0w?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYwOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

As stated in my appeal, the driver was operational at the time in a TfL licensed Private Hire Vehicle which has red route dispensation by TfL to enable them to pick up and set down passenger.

 

“It is important to note that the operator does not have to issue a notice directly to the driver of the vehicle, as it can hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. The evidence shows that the keeper was invited to identify the driver, but does not indicate that they provided us with the relevant information to transfer liability to the driver.”

Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd have uploaded a contract document for review stating this is from the Landowner when it is in fact from the Leaseholder. This does not prove private land and therefore is not classed as relevant land. They have given no explanation as to why they have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which implies they have failed to comply with the requirements of the law. As the keeper of the vehicle, I have implicitly not accepted liability of this parking charge on behalf of the driver and due to non compliance with PoFA 2012, Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd can not transfer liability to myself.

 

I note that Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd have failed to address my appeal points...

 

2. Contradictory Road Markings – Red Route vs. Drop-Off Bay

3. Signage is 100% Prohibitory – No Contract Can Be Formed

5. Jopson v Homeguard – Set-Down is Not Parking


....that is it at the moment. I do not know if I am over complicating my response or under responding to it. I note in my previous post that I linked to IMGUR embedded images that hasn't seemed to work? This is the link that I hope will now work. https://imgur.com/a/J8m0koY The contract that PPS has supplied is attached again as I've mentioned in my POPLA response it shows 'leaseholder' and not 'landowner'

Am I barking up the wrong tree with my POPLA response - can anyone advise me if there is something else I should or shouldn't be saying?

The email I received from POPLA was dated the 11th June and it's 7 days to respond. I presume this means I have until Tuesday to send my response?

 [attachimg=1]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: jfollows on June 11, 2025, 07:33:38 pm
What points in your appeal has PPS not addressed? The non-compliance with PoFA 2012, so implicitly they accept this point, and can not hold the keeper liable. They also say that “by failing to provide the driver’s details, the appellant has assumed liability for this PCN” which is a huge crock of you-know-what. They can only hold the keeper liable if they complied with the requirements of the law, and they didn’t, so they can’t.

So you need to rebut the points they make that you disagree with, and this is the huge one, but there will be others.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on June 11, 2025, 07:01:18 pm
Good afternoon,

Yet again - I'm grateful for the advice you all give and I'm kindly asking for more.

Following on from submitting the appeal to POPLA, this is the response I have had from them today....


Your parking charge appeal against Private Parking Solution (London) - EW.

Private Parking Solution (London) - EW has now uploaded its evidence to your appeal. This will be available for you to view by clicking xxxx

Please note: some evidence may not show immediately, if it is not currently available on your account please check back later before contacting us.

You have seven days from the date of this correspondence to provide comments on the evidence uploaded by Private Parking Solution (London) - EW.

Please note that these comments must relate to the grounds of appeal you submitted when first lodging your appeal with POPLA, we do not accept new grounds of appeal or evidence at this stage

Any comments received after the period of seven days has ended will not be considered and we will progress your appeal for assessment. Therefore, if you have any issues with the evidence uploaded by Private Parking Solution (London) - EW such as being unable to view it online, please contact POPLA immediately via phone - 0330 1596 126, or email - info@popla.co.uk, so that we can look to rectify this as soon as possible.

After this period has ended, we will aim to issue our decision as quickly as possible. The decision we reach is final and binding. When the decision is reached there is no further option for appeal.

Yours sincerely

POPLA Team



The statement in response to my appeal that PPS has sent to POPLA is this....

"Dear Assessor,

According to the documents provided by the landowner and uploaded for review, the land in question is private land.
The contract that we are seeking payment on has arisen from a breach of the notified terms and conditions of parking stated on the signs that the landowner has requested us to erect and permitted to remain erected at this location. The evidence demonstrates that the signage is clearly located to make motorists aware of the terms and conditions, and the potential consequences of non-adherence to the terms have been made fully available. A prominent entrance sign, facing the oncoming traffic, makes clear that parking on red routes is not allowed (NO PARKING ON RED ROUTE) and refers users to further signs within the site. The signage states “Red Route. No parking at any time. This private land is controlled by Wardens. If you fail to comply with any of the terms and conditions stated below you agree to pay a £100 Parking Charge Notice. No parking/waiting/loading/unloading on red routes or pedestrian footpaths. By parking on this private land you agree to comply with these terms and conditions (the parking contract) and accept liability to pay the fee for unauthorised parking." Additionally, there are double red lines on the road, indicating that stopping, parking, loading/unloading or boarding and alighting from a vehicle is prohibited.  While red routes are commonly associated with public roads managed by Transport for London (TfL), the rules regarding parking restrictions on red routes also apply when such markings and signage are present on private land. In the present case, an exception is provided for taxis, which are known for their ability to be hailed on the street without pre-booking. These taxis are licensed by local councils or relevant authorities and must adhere to specific standards. London's traditional black cabs, although now available in other colours, are a prime example of this type of taxi.
Private Hire Vehicles (PHVs), sometimes called "minicabs," must be booked in advance and cannot use taxi ranks. According to Transport for London (TfL) regulations, PHVs are not permitted to stop or park on taxi ranks at any time, even to pick up or drop off passengers. While taxis may be granted certain exemptions on private land or public roads, any exceptions for taxis do not extend to PHVs. PHV drivers need to be aware of these distinctions to ensure compliance with parking restrictions and avoid parking charges.
In the present case, the driver parked on a taxi rank marked with double red lines, meaning that any other vehicle except a taxi is not permitted to park, wait or load/unload in the area; the driver cannot benefit from the 5-minute consideration, as it does not apply in strictly no-parking areas. By choosing to ignore the terms and remain on red route, the driver contravened the parking contract and became liable for a parking charge.
It is important to note that the operator does not have to issue a notice directly to the driver of the vehicle, as it can hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. The evidence shows that the keeper was invited to identify the driver, but does not indicate that they provided us with the relevant information to transfer liability to the driver. By failing to provide the driver's details, the appellant has assumed liability for this PCN."



The new photo evidence that PPS has sent to POPLA is attached in the 'imgur' link below - they also attached the same photo's as before of the vehicle parked in the 'taxi drop off point only' which I have not included as they were linked in a previous post.

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/J8m0koY" data-context="false" ><a href="//imgur.com/a/J8m0koY"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed


I have also attached a pdf that they sent of their contract they have as a private parking firm in control of that land.


I hope you are able to view what I have attached and linked to?
Can you please kindly advise as to what I should do now as previously mentioned - this is completely out of my remit!


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 22, 2025, 02:36:02 pm
The notice was sent to the Registered Keeper. The only "known" factor in all this. You are appealing only as the known Keeper and are under no legal obligation to identify the unknown driver to an unregulated private parking company.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 22, 2025, 11:44:37 am
Thanks again.

In the 'other' section step 3 asks for 'your details' - this isn't an admission of who was the 'driver' at all is it?
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: DWMB2 on May 22, 2025, 11:19:24 am
"Other" - the first one reveals who was driving.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 22, 2025, 11:13:53 am
Thanks, I've not done a Popla appeal before.

I'm on Popla's web page now.

I know this may sound a stupid question but am I selecting the grounds of appeal as 'I was not improperly parked' or 'other'.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: DWMB2 on May 22, 2025, 10:24:48 am
You'll have to provide the keeper's name either way.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 22, 2025, 10:23:51 am
Noted - thanks.

I will submit it to Popla as a PDF attachment shortly.

I've put all the details into the statement (adjusted the time) and just wanted to know do I end it with 'Regards, Registered Keeper' or 'Regards, (actual keepers name).

Many thanks
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2025, 08:14:39 pm
If you think it helps argue your case, then include it.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 21, 2025, 04:37:18 pm
I appreciate the response back,

Just to clarify the details in the image of the job sheet - should you think that that makes a difference as to whether or not it should be sent with Popla appeal....

Job request was accepted at 12:16 the duration of the trip once the passenger was collected was 43 mins 23 secs the pick up point is shown as postcode ending 2QP (I do get the pick up point is irrelevant) however, drop off point is shown as Western Gateway E16 1XL (where PCN was issued).

Counting on 43 mins from 12:16 pm gives a minimum time of arrival at Western Gateway at 12:59 pm. I say minimum arrival time as it is my understanding that the driver may have had to drive a minute or so to get to the pick up location hence then the drop off time could be slightly later than 12.59 pm, but still in the region of 1 pm when the evidence photos where taken proving the drivers reason for being at that location.

Obviously the vehicle is clearly TfL registered so has the ability to drop off in that location but I just thought it best to ask if it were any good to include the job sheet or not or am I now over complicating it?

Sorry to take more of your time for something you may think trivial!
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2025, 03:48:39 pm
I don't think that is of any use as it was issued at 12:16 and does not show the actual pick-up or drop-off time.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 21, 2025, 03:01:40 pm
Thanks, I will do exactly as you have advised after double checking all the dates/times etc.

I have this screenshot https://imgur.com/7WxaIOv of the job the driver did, should this also be sent along with the Popla appeal? Do you think this gives legitimacy to the appeal as there is proof of need to be where the driver was at?

Many thanks!
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 20, 2025, 06:12:00 pm
Ignore what POPLA tell you to think and do! Simply use what I have given you and just make sure it is the correct details and dates, then save it as a PDF. You can put "See attached PDF appeal" in the webform and upload the PDF.

Forget about the "seconds" on the time-stamps, the are irrelevant.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 20, 2025, 05:55:48 pm
Absolutely brilliant - you have definitely worded it so much better than I ever could - thank you for that!

I just have to change the figure on the time of the supplied pictures as I mistakenly said the first photo taken was 13:04:16 it was in fact 13:04:12 which would then add 4 secs onto the total time making it 2 minutes and 39 secs.

Can I ask as to whether or not I copy and paste what you have written or do I need to kind of re word it (god knows how I'm going to do that) as when I've been on Popla's web page it says this....

"Be honest and use your own words

We know you want your appeal to be successful and might have looked for guidance from successful claims on other sites, however, using templates or copying and pasting text won't help your claim. Our site has been designed so that you can provide most of the information we need in just a few clicks and without too much typing. Where needed, using your own words to describe your situation is the best way to proceed with the appeal."


How they determine 'whose own words a person uses' is beyond me...have I inadvertently answered my own question??
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 19, 2025, 11:20:16 pm
I'd be more specific and factual and don't mention the pick up:

Quote
1. Land Likely Not “Relevant Land” Under PoFA – No Keeper Liability

The Notice to Keeper was issued by post, and the operator seeks to rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) to pursue the Keeper. However, the location — Royal Victoria Dock, 1 Western Gateway, London, E16 1XL — raises serious doubt as to whether the land qualifies as “relevant land.”

There are multiple indicators that the area is under statutory control, and therefore excluded under Paragraph 3 of PoFA:

• Double red lines are present, which usually fall under Transport for London regulation.
• The location is part of the Royal Docks area, potentially falling under the Port of London Authority (PLA) jurisdiction.
• The surrounding roads may be adopted highway or under Newham Council traffic regulation orders.

If the area is part of the public highway or under control of a statutory traffic authority (e.g. TfL, the local authority, or PLA), it is not relevant land under PoFA. The operator has provided no evidence to show otherwise. Therefore, they cannot pursue the Keeper, and the PCN must be cancelled unless the operator can definitively prove that PoFA applies.

2. Contradictory Road Markings – Red Route vs. Drop-Off Bay

The ground markings are self-contradictory:

• A solid double red line runs along the kerb, which signifies no stopping at any time.
• Directly alongside that is a white dashed bay marked “TAXI DROP OFF POINT ONLY”.

This is nonsensical. The motorist is both told they cannot stop at all and must stop (to drop off). These two messages cannot co-exist lawfully or logically.

Such inconsistency creates legal ambiguity and is a breach of consumer protection law — specifically, the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Sch. 2, para 10 — which prohibits enforcement based on unclear or ambiguous terms.

No driver can be expected to comply with contradictory markings, and no fair contract can arise in such a situation.

3. Signage is 100% Prohibitory – No Contract Can Be Formed

The only visible sign states:

“NO PARKING AT ANY TIME... no stopping... no waiting... no loading/unloading...”

This is a prohibitory sign. It offers no contractual alternative, no invitation to park, and no consideration. It is not capable of forming a contract.

In private parking enforcement, the signage must communicate clear terms and offer a driver the opportunity to accept them. Here, the sign communicates only forbiddance, not offer. That makes any claim of contractual liability untenable.

4. Driver Was a TfL-Licensed PHV Lawfully Dropping Off in a Designated Bay

The vehicle was a TfL-licensed Private Hire Vehicle (PHV), displaying a valid TfL licence disc. The driver is also registered with TfL and was actively working at the time.

They dropped off a passenger at just after 1pm. This short stop was lawful and standard for PHV operation.

The bay is explicitly marked “TAXI DROP OFF POINT ONLY”. There is nothing on the sign or road to prohibit PHVs from stopping. In practice, across London, PHVs use taxi drop-off points routinely, unless expressly restricted.

TfL’s official guidance confirms this:

“Private hire vehicles can pick up and drop off passengers anywhere that this is permitted...”

(https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information)

The driver complied with this. They did not park or wait — they dropped off a fare in a marked drop-off bay and left. This was a lawful action, and enforcement in this context is without justification.

5. Jopson v Homeguard – Set-Down is Not Parking

In Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd [2016] B9QZ4H3R, it was held that:

“Stopping briefly to allow a passenger to board or alight is not ‘parking’.”

This case is directly on point. The driver remained in the vehicle with the engine running. There was no parking, no abandonment of the vehicle, no waiting. The action was lawful, necessary, and reasonable.

No contravention occurred.

6. Minimum Consideration Period Not Breached

Photographic evidence shows that:

• First photo was taken at 13:04:16
• Final photo at 13:06:51
• Total time observed: 2 minutes 35 seconds

Section 5.1 of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (Feb 2025) states:

“A minimum 5-minute consideration period must be given to allow a driver to read the terms and conditions on signage before entering into a contract.”

Even if a contract could have been formed (it couldn't — see points 2 & 3), the operator has not shown that the driver remained on site for 5 minutes or more. The burden of proof lies with them.

7. Keeper Not Liable – Driver Not Identified

Since this land is not relevant under PoFA, the Keeper cannot be held liable.

Furthermore, the driver has not been identified, and there is no legal presumption that the Keeper was the driver. In VCS v Edward (2023), HHJ Gargan stated:

“Simply because somebody is the registered keeper does not mean, on balance of probability, they were driving…”

The operator has provided no evidence of who was driving. They cannot hold the Keeper liable and cannot prove driver liability either.

Conclusion

The land is almost certainly under statutory control — PoFA does not apply.
Road markings contradict each other — enforcement is impossible.
Signage is entirely prohibitory — no contract can arise.
The driver was a TfL-licensed PHV dropping off in a marked bay — a lawful action.
The brief stop is not “parking” (Jopson).
The 5-minute consideration period was not exceeded.
No driver has been identified — Keeper liability fails.
This PCN is invalid on multiple grounds. I request that POPLA uphold this appeal and instruct the operator to cancel it.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 19, 2025, 08:37:08 pm
Thanks again for your time.....

Please see my dialogue to Popla, the wordings that I have gone through on the forum from various other posts - most of which @b789 you have done - have gone completely over my head! So sorry if what I am contemplating sending in the Popla appeal is incoherent, I really, really appreciate any feedback or even editing to what I have done.

I miraculously managed to add the images to 'imgur' and the link to these is here....

https://imgur.com/a/gh71t0M

I hope the link works!!

You can see picture #1 was taken at 13:04:16 then subsequent pictures up to picture #9 13:04:28 a full 12 seconds. The warden must have moved fast...lol! Picture #10 was then taken at 13:06:51, one presumes this is the 'consideration period given' a full 2 minutes and 23 seconds.

I wanted to put in something regarding that along the lines of...

'The NtD does not show that the vehicle remained onsite beyond the minimum consideration period, so there is no evidence that any contract was formed'

...but wasn't able to fathom where it should go in my appeal below....




Appeal Against Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued by Private Parking Services
 

POPLA Reference: 
PCN Reference:
Vehicle Registration:
Date of Alleged Contravention:
 
This is an appeal by the Keeper of the vehicle, and I raise the following points for POPLA to consider:
 
 

1. The Location is Not 'Relevant Land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
2. Inadequate Evidence of Clear and Prominent Signage
3. No Legal Obligation to Identify the Driver or Assumption of Driver Identity

 

Grounds for Appeal:
 

1. The Location is Not 'Relevant Land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA):
 
The alleged contravention occurred at Royal Victoria Dock, 1 Western Gateway, London, E16 1XL. Paragraph 3(1)(a) of Schedule 4 of PoFA explicitly states that "relevant land" excludes any land that is “a highway maintainable at the public expense”. Therefore, Royal Victoria Dock, 1 Western Gateway, London, E16 1XL is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA. 

 

Paragraph 3(1)(b) of Schedule 4 of PoFA defines a “parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority” 

 

Paragraph 3(2) of Schedule 4 of PoFA in sub paragraph (1)(b) ”traffic authority” means each of the following - 

 

(a) the Secretary of State;

(b) the Welsh Ministers;

(c) Transport for London;

(d) the Common Council of the City of London;

(e) the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;

(f) a parish or community council;

(g) the Council of the Isles of Scilly

 

The vehicle of the alleged contravention is registered by TfL as a PHV (Private Hire Vehicle) with a TfL Vehicle Licence badge in clear regulated view and therefore has red route exemption for the purposes of picking up and setting down of passengers as defined on TfL’s webpage https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/exemptions

 

 

2.  Inadequate Evidence of Clear and Prominent Signage:
 
Private Parking Solutions has not provided sufficient evidence that the terms and conditions were clearly displayed and visible to motorists. For a driver to have agreed to any contractual terms, the signage must have been legible, prominently positioned, and capable of being read before entering into a contract. Without evidence of the signage’s visibility and clarity at the time of the alleged contravention, the claim is unsubstantiated. The signage at the time of the alleged contravention is obscured from sight by tree foliage.



 
 
3. No Legal Obligation to Identify the Driver or Assumption of Driver Identity:
 
As the registered Keeper of the vehicle, I am not legally obligated to identify the driver. Private Parking Services has provided no evidence to identify the driver at the time of the alleged contravention. Since liability cannot be transferred to the Keeper under PoFA due to the site’s statutory control, Private Parking Services must pursue the driver—if they can identify them. Without such identification, their claim against the Keeper is baseless.
 
Furthermore, the POPLA assessor must not assume or infer that the Keeper was also the driver. There is extensive persuasive case law on this matter. In VCS v Edward H0KF6C9C [2023], HHJ Mark Gargan in his conclusion, stated in paragraph 35.3:
 
 

“It is consistent with the appropriate probability analysis whereby simply because somebody is a registered keeper, it does not mean on balance of probability they were driving on this occasion, because one simply cannot tell. For example, there will be companies who are registered keepers of vehicles where many drivers have the use of the vehicle from time to time. There will be individual employers who are the registered keeper but who allow a number of people to drive their vehicles. There may be situations where husband and wife are each registered keepers of their respective vehicles but for some reason drive the other. These are all possibilities which show that it is not appropriate to draw an inference that, on balance of probability, the registered keeper was driving on any given occasion.”

 

The appellant is explaining this point in detail because some assessors have in the past erroneously allowed MET Parking Services to claim that the Keeper was likely the driver without any evidence. MET attempts to mislead assessors by relying on a misleading and erroneous note in Annex C of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice, which states:
 
 

“Liability
It is the driver that is liable for the parking charge.
NOTE: The driver is often the same person as the keeper and/or the hirer. Where a keeper or hirer fails or refuses to provide the name and serviceable address of the driver when requested to, it may be assumed they are the driver, based on that failure or refusal.”

 

This statement is contrary to the law, as explained in VCS v Edward. The Keeper’s refusal to identify the driver does not permit any assumption of driver identity. Any such inference would be legally baseless and improper. POPLA assessors must adhere to established legal principles and not be misled by incorrect interpretations provided by rogue parking operators.



 

Conclusion:
 
The location within Royal Victoria Docks places it under the control of the Highways Act 1980 and excludes it from being considered relevant land under PoFA. The wording of Paragraph 3(1)(a) and Paragraph 3(1)(b) of Schedule 4 of PoFA is clear: land is not relevant land if it is a highway maintained at the public expense and a parking space is one which is controlled by a traffic authority. The TfL Exemptions link provided with this appeal confirms the fact that beyond any doubt the land the vehicle had allegedly parked on is under their jurisdiction. Additionally, the registered Keeper cannot be assumed to be the driver, as supported by persuasive case law. Private Parking Services cannot hold the registered Keeper liable for the alleged parking charge. I therefore request POPLA to uphold this appeal and instruct Private Parking Services to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.




Patiently, eagerly and gratefully awaiting further advice. Many thanks!
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 16, 2025, 07:25:31 pm
@b789 much appreciate all the help and advice, especially as I have now noticed you are 'on holiday'...I'm doubly grateful now for the time you've taken to reply to my request!!

I have done a quick search and found many posts with Popla appeals letters. I read them without completely understanding the content so I will definitely post mine before going ahead with anything as I may just copy content that is utterly useless to my situation.

33 days is good but as a person with a nervous disposition I'm quite keen to push forward to get this dealt with as soon as possible. I will look to draft the Popla appeal over the coming weekend to post here on Monday.

Enjoy your weekend... :) 
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 16, 2025, 06:12:44 pm
Just do a search for other POPLA appeals on this forum and see how they are composed and what points are made in them and adapt something for your case.

Don't send anything until you've posted your attempt here so that you can get advice on anything tat needs adding, removing or correcting. You have 33 days from the date of the appeal rejection to submit your POPLA appeal, so no rush.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 16, 2025, 02:51:46 pm
While there is no need to worry, you can guarantee that the initial appeal is going to be rejected. One step at a time.

100% correct.

An email was received today with rejection letter (attached below) stating to either pay up or appeal to POPLA.

Could you please advise me what to do next as this is out of my depth and comfort zone...ashamed to admit it!

Many thanks

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Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 13, 2025, 07:00:37 pm
While there is no need to worry, you can guarantee that the initial appeal is going to be rejected. One step at a time.
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 13, 2025, 06:25:35 pm
I have submitted your words via their website as they state that you can not dispute via email, only through their website or by post. In regards to picking 'other' it displayed a paragraph stating that only the 'driver' or the 'registered keeper' is able to dispute the charge unless they have given the 'other' permission which you then have to supply a document stating that permission. So, I stuck with registered keeper and have submitted the contest.

I appreciate your time in helping me and keep my fingers crossed that that will be the end of it. I'd be grateful to be able to come back with whatever they decide to throw back at me...

I will keep you posted either way. Thanks once again for your time/help and advice!
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 13, 2025, 04:13:29 pm
There is no such thing as the "owner" as far as private parking charges are concerned. There is only the Keeper and the Driver, both separate legal entities, although the Keeper could also be the Driver, but they do not know that. As there is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the Driver, you must not do so.

These private companies cannot compel the Keeper to identify the Driver and they are not allowed to presume or infer that the Keeper must also be the driver. If using a webform to submit your appeal, make sure you only select an option that says "other" or "Keeper only".

Their website says that you can contact them by email at info@privateparkingsolutions.co.uk

So, submit your appeal by email or as an attachment to one, making sure you reference the PCN number .
Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 13, 2025, 03:53:46 pm
Thank you b789 - I had no idea about anything that you quoted above regarding the compliance that these private parking companies have to adhere to.

Do I send this appeal to them via their web page or by post? I am sure that if I do it via the web page they ask for who is the owner and who was the driver at the time before it allows you to write your dispute. I am shame faced to say that I know this as I have previously been one of those 'low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree' and 'paid up out of ignorance and fear' :-[

Title: Re: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: b789 on May 13, 2025, 03:33:52 pm
Welcome. You are confusing a scummy, parasitic bunch of ex-clampers with an 'authority' that can issue fines and penalties. PPS have sent the Keeper of the vehicle a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract by the driver.

The fact that the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not PoFA compliant has also been missed. PoFA 9(2)(a) require an NtK to state the period of parking, which cannot simply be a single moment in time. This is private land, not under any statutory control. For a contract to have been formed with the driver, they must have been given a minimum consideration period to seek out, read and decide whether to agree with the terms or leave. The minimum consideration period is 5 minutes.

So, the scummy morons at PPS have lied when they state in their NtK that the Keeper can be liable under PoFA. This warrants a formal complaint to the DVLA for breaching the KADOE contract which puts them at risk of losing their access to the DVLA database.

As PPS have no idea of the drivers identity, and there is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking firm, any appeals must be only as the Keeper. The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

This will be rejected but a POPLA code will be issued which is valid for 33 days from the date of the initial appeal rejection. It may be possible to persuade a POPLA assessor that the PCN is invalid.

Even if the POPLA appeal is unsuccessful, there is no obligation to pay the PCN and a county court claim is easily defended and has less than a 1% chance of ever getting to a hearing as it would be struck out or discontinued. The only reason it would go so far is in the hope that the recipient is low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will pay up out of ignorance and fear.
Title: PCN from PPS - Parked on Red Route Royal Victoria Dock
Post by: saozgirl03 on May 13, 2025, 03:03:47 pm
Apologies first as I'm a newbie to this forum and I am sure I will make some kind of mistake....

I'm seeking help for a PCN a driver received due to parking on a red route at Royal Victoria Docks.

Google link here... https://maps.app.goo.gl/X6NkBTVQEyD5s63u9

The driver is a TfL registered Private Hire Driver and at the time of the alleged breach of the advertised terms and conditions, had dropped off a passenger to postcode E16 1XL at approx 12.59 am (in link above they had dropped off in the 'taxi drop off point only' section of the road). Proof of job can be supplied. Within a few minutes of having dropped the passenger off, the driver received another job to pick up a passenger at postcode E16 1UW (further up the road) which they drove to and picked up at 1.08pm - proof of this can also be supplied. The time between dropping off one passenger to driving to a different location and picking up another passenger is literally minutes so I do not understand the charge of 'parked on a red route' as the driver merely dropped off. Unfortunately I am unable to read the PPS 'Red Route terms and conditions' signage from google maps so can not state what they are but as the driver is registered with TfL and the vehicle they were driving has a valid TfL Private Hire Vehicle Licence it is my understanding that they are able to pick up and drop off as described in this link https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/parking-information. There is a taxi rank at this location but this is not where the driver set down their passenger. The argument could be that they are not a taxi and there are not able to use the taxi drop off point either but I do not see this as a valid argument as there are many places throughout London that Private Hire Drivers pick up and set down that state taxi on the signage, as long as it is not a taxi rank. Plus the PCN is issued for the red route.

On the top of the second page of the PCN it says photographic evidence can be viewed by visiting the website www.paypps.co.uk. I have not done this yet as I did not know if they can see I have viewed it and some how use that as proof that this PCN is mine (is that me being over cautious?) Perhaps there is a clear picture of the signage that I can upload to this post, if you can confirm that I can view the footage then I shall do so.

I plan to dispute the PCN but my wording may not be anywhere as concise as someone on this forum who has far more knowledge on how to do these things so any advice will be gratefully received. If there is some other information that is required, and of course if I should log in to see the photographic evidence, then please let me know.

Thanking you all in advance..... :)

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