Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Angel1977 on May 13, 2025, 11:48:45 am
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Update: The council rejected the formal represetations, made on 20 June, on 21 July.
On 1 August I started an Appeal to the tribunal which included the ground that the alleged contravention was the wrong one.
The hearing was set for 12 November.
Yesterday Newham Council filed a DNC form and cancelled the PCN.
(https://i.ibb.co/DfhGK2zW/umesh-dnc.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zz5HTDGX)
Newham Council are cheats and liars, they rejected a perfect representation.
The motorist has been put through 6 months of stress and many people just pay up.
Those that trust the experts on this forum don't have to pay so often.
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Thanks H C Andersen and mrmustard
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I would use everything that HCA has said and add two further points
2 Regulation 3 of the Appeals Regulations 2022 includes that a Notice to Owner must offer the chance to make representations by, if appropriate, email / fax / online 'as well as a postal address'. That is not on the Notice so is a procedural impropriety.
3 The correct contravention is for being parked in a suspended bay not on a single or double yellow and even that should have been code 02 to include a loading ban.
Best the OP lets me or HCA write and submit this.
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IMO,
As far as I can see in the circumstances of your case the grounds would be:
'The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case';
The circumstances being as follows:
You were aware of the Temporary Traffic Order requirements and had planned to move your car on Sunday evening to an adjoining road reserved for permit holders.(the restriction came into effect on Monday 14th)
Matters did not go to plan, however.
At *** on Sunday my father had an episode of rectal bleeding. I am his carer and contacted the hospital who advised us to bring him in immediately for examination. Unfortunately, my car would not start and therefore I had to call upon my neighbour **** to take us. We arrived at the hospital at approx. ***. My neighbour returned home(could you have called them later to pick you up?). My father, who is 77, was admitted and was in severe discomfort. As he also suffers from a neurological condition similar to dementia and is not able to manage interactions in a hospital environment. I therefore felt it was essential that I remain with him. At this time no-one knew for how long he would be kept in but in the event he was not released until *** on ***.
My circumstances were therefore:
Had my car started, then it would have been parked at the hospital and not on the road and the contravention would not have occurred. But it didn't start.
Had my father not been taken ill, not been admitted and only discharged at ** on ** then we would have returned home on Sunday and I would have called assistance to get it started in order to move from the location in order to avoid being in contravention on the Monday (which I did once we arrived home - see attached). But he was taken ill and admitted.
I respectfully submit that the above support my representation grounds and that the PCN should be cancelled.
Only write what's true and provide supporting evidence as per your initial reps.
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I ahve your email. I have two other cases to deal; with first, most experts are running dozens or hundreds of cases.
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Hello senior members - apologies - did anyone get a chance to view this latest post ? Any inputs would be much appreciated thanks
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Hi Quick update for everyone — including @H C Andersen, @John U.K., and @mrmustard who have been involved earlier in my case -
I’ve now received the Notice to Owner, which arrived today (10 June) but is dated 4 June, so I’ve already lost 6 days of the 28-day response window.
Here is the document attached
Would appreciate advice on next steps. Should I now proceed with formal representations using the “contravention did not occur due to circumstances beyond my control” angle, as previously discussed (hospitalisation, caring duties, inability to return home), or do I need to reframe anything further at this stage?
Thanks again
https://ibb.co/k6PjVZ4S
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hi mrmustard, thank you for your offer of help and for watching my thread. I appreciate your willingness to assist pro bono and your impressive success rate. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, including John U.K. and H C Andersen and stamfordman, for their advice and support. I'm sorry for the delay in responding - yesterday was a challenging day as I was in the hospital with my father. I'll definitely keep your offer in mind and email you once I receive the Notice to Owner. Thank you again for your support.
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I am now watching your thread and am about to start blogging about what cheats Newham are. Will be happy to take over as your representative once the Notice to Owner arrives. Email mrmustard@zoho.com once it does
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I think your next step should be to wait for the NtO.
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Having re-read their letter rejecting your challenge, I find the letter self-contradictory:
1) It asks for further evidence (that suggests they are on the road towards acceptance)
2) they state they do find the evidence you have provided substantiates your claim (that suggests the evidence is good enough)
then
3) they refuse to cancel.....
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Use the time whilst waiting to make a a draft formal rep against the NtO, uising the points HCA has made.
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hi @ H C Andersen - then what should be my next steps - was waiting for others to chip in as you said but haven't had any traction since.
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IMO, your initial reps placed the stress in the wrong place i.e. the main plank of your defence is NOT that your car wouldn't move, it's that you weren't there to move it.
So VAT, who cares!
Whether you go for the grounds of 'contravention did not occur.....circumstances...' or 'penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case' they both engage the key issue of 'circumstances' which gives an adjudicator(if it got that far) considerable scope which is not closely prescribed in law, it's where subjectivity comes in.
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thanks - I did submit it to them in the first account - but they totally seem to have disregarded it
https://ibb.co/Tq1K4XMK
are we able to submit another (These being:
You weren't there to move the car. You had not planned to remain at the hospital but that due to the circumstances(which you will set out) you could not return to move your car.
And, as it happens, the battery or whatever was flat therefore even if you had returned it is questionable whether you could have arranged to move the car in time.)
or do i have to wait for the next stage
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Thank you.
Therefore IMO you defence is 'contravention did not occur' (due to circumstances beyond your control).
These being:
You weren't there to move the car. You had not planned to remain at the hospital but that due to the circumstances(which you will set out) you could not return to move your car.
And, as it happens, the battery or whatever was flat therefore even if you had returned it is questionable whether you could have arranged to move the car in time.
Wait for others.
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hi @ H C Andersen thanks for picking this up as a Hero member.
no other vehicle - my neighbour gave us a lift
The car in question was parked correctly in a permit holder space on 13 April.
A suspension came into effect on 14th.
At some time on 13th you had to take your father to the hospital in the second car where you remained with him until he was discharged on 14th after a PCN had been issued because no-one was in the house to move the car before the suspension came into effect.
Ans : you are absolutely right in the sequence of events
The reason the car in contravention wasn't moved is because no-one was there to move it, or have I got this wrong?
Ans : you are absolutely right
why you stayed with your father overnight and into the next day. If the answer is because he's your father and at that time returning home to move a b****y car was not your No.1 priority, then so be it!
Ans : you are absolutely right
To add the other reason is also because he is 77 and was not even in a position to talk to doctors or knows about the medication that he is taking (bit of alzheimers dementia) I am his carer and because of his condition he feels safe around me and the hospital / doctors do not function without my presence - hope that clarifies
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OP, I'm confused by your account.
Pl correct if this is incorrect.
You have two cars.
The car in question was parked correctly in a permit holder space on 13 April.
A suspension came into effect on 14th.
At some time on 13th you had to take your father to the hospital in the second car where you remained with him until he was discharged on 14th after a PCN had been issued because no-one was in the house to move the car before the suspension came into effect.
Your references to breakdown and having another confuse me. The reason the car in contravention wasn't moved is because no-one was there to move it, or have I got this wrong?
The 'had someone been there they couldn't have moved it anyway because it had broken down' is secondary IMO.
But pl clarify the sequence of events and why you stayed with your father overnight and into the next day. If the answer is because he's your father and at that time returning home to move a b****y car was not your No.1 priority, then so be it!
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It doesn't look as if they give a history of actions they take in connection with a PCN (unlike, e.g., TfL)
(https://i.ibb.co/zVNxGjF6/From-the-website-Notice-Review-London-Borough-of-Newham.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wvs5gq0V)
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hi @John -please see below a direct print from the Newham website - thanks,
https://ibb.co/Wvs5gq0V
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hi @ John - yes - all these photos have been obtained from online
and what does it say about the status/history?
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hi @ John - yes - all these photos have been obtained from online
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Do Newham provide an online facility for checking the status/history of thje PCN?
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thanks @stam - i will go on as well
code technicality - is that a valid ground for appeal ?
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The council has a duty to act fairly in circumstances beyond your control.
I would go on with this - if they reject again they will probably reoffer the discounted penalty but it is more high stakes now these PCNs have gone up to £160.
Another point is that the contravention is technically wrong - it should be a code 02.
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thanks a ton @JOHN for the reply
Please also note : that i was in the hospital with my father for 30+ hours - so couldnt move the car on Monday (when the restriction was in place as i was just not there) apologies didnt mention it before but it is in the attachments an overnight stay (date admitted and date discharged) in A&E
The next document is the Notice to Owner (NtO) which will be despatched anytime now.
Ans : so just hold on till then? it will increase to 160£ it says
Are you the Registered Keeper, and does the V5 have the correct name & addresss on it?
Ans : yes - registered keeper and V5 has correct name and address
Once the NtO is issued, please post it here.
Ans : Will do
I agree with Stamf - Newham's behaviour is despicable.
Ans : thanks,
However, have you any evidence of repair/replacement of the battery? If no involvement by RAC/AA,garage &C., and managed a jump-start could you get a statement from the person who provuided the jump-start?
Ans : I was waiting for my friend to provide a jump-start for me - he tried but it didnt work - so i ordered this from amazon - please find attached but as you can see the date it was delivered was 1 May - council will say not within 24 hours - so not acceptable :
https://ibb.co/k6Wm550w
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Date of PCN 14th April.
You have had your challenge rejected. The next document is the Notice to Owner (NtO) which will be despatched anytime now.
Are you the Registered Keeper, and does the V5 have the correct name & addresss on it?
Once the NtO is issued, please post it here.
I agree with Stamf - Newham's behaviour is despicable.
However, have you any evidence of repair/replacement of the battery? If no involvement by RAC/AA,garage &C., and managed a jump-start could you get a statement from the person who provuided the jump-start?
Sometimes a Council's asking for additional evidence is an indication they may concede if they can tick a box.
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hi please can someone help : 1st post to the site - I have uploaded all info - The council’s insistence on a VAT breakdown report is wholly inappropriate given the life-threatening medical emergency that necessitated the parking contravention - they seem to totally disregard the hospital emergency and insist on a VAT report - At no point would any reasonable person prioritise parking paperwork over a life-threatening crisis but i dont know how to go about it - please can experts guide? thanks in advance
https://ibb.co/1JLFbK7j
https://ibb.co/HfJ6cj6Z
https://ibb.co/Tq1K4XMK
https://ibb.co/Fbf0Wkp3
GSV LINK:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5399869,0.05295,3a,75y,163.21h,88.02t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sKNqVHusnfgdsb8-4k0myiw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.98352851365604%26panoid%3DKNqVHusnfgdsb8-4k0myiw%26yaw%3D163.20863465007477!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDUwNy4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D
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@ stamfordman -
yes i am a permit holder
Newham - shouldn't be using temp traffic order orders to suspend parking bays.
it seems they changed the law in Dec 2024 - and they are allowed to do that
What was the purpose of the order? Were you aware of the sign(s) before?
yes i was aware of the sign and thought will do it on Sunday evening when non-residents take away thier cars from the neighbouring street where this sign was not put up
What was wrong with the car?
battery dead
Have you got a close up picture of the yellow sign
no but it said for cutting trees branches and leaves - but there was no tree above this car - which is why they didnt move my car or impound my car
Post the PCN.
PCN and other docs posted
https://ibb.co/1JLFbK7j
https://ibb.co/HfJ6cj6Z
https://ibb.co/Tq1K4XMK
https://ibb.co/Fbf0Wkp3
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hi thanks and apologies Moderator I have now redacted personal details and uploaded files to
https://ibb.co/1JLFbK7j
https://ibb.co/HfJ6cj6Z
https://ibb.co/Tq1K4XMK
https://ibb.co/Fbf0Wkp3
I saw you did it for me as well or was it stamfordman - thanks to both of you
@stamfordman - replying to you now - sorry for the delay - moderator had asked a change in post
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So you couldn't start your car and had to leave it in contravention?
I take it you are a permit holder.
Newham shouldn't be using temp traffic order orders to suspend parking bays. What was the purpose of the order? Were you aware of the sign(s) before?
What was wrong with the car?
That said not consider the emergency that led you to abandon the car and ask for a breakdown report is pretty disgusting by Newham.
I'm surprised they didn't impound the car so you were lucky about that.
Have you got a close up picture of the yellow sign.
Post the PCN.
(https://i.ibb.co/WvZSNp6Z/n4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/1yfbtJc/n3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/HfxWQg0Q/n2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/LzGCw40R/n1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/KYTNKFk/Screenshot-2025-05-13-at-12-12-08.png)
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Please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and post up here (use ibb.co or imgur)
all sides of the unredacted PCN (if a postal PCN redact only yr name & address),
the Council's reply to your challenge (redact only yr name & address),
any Council photos,
and
a GSV link to the location.
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hi please can someone help : 1st post to the site - I have uploaded all info - The council’s insistence on a VAT breakdown report is wholly inappropriate given the life-threatening medical emergency that necessitated the parking contravention - they seem to totally disregard the hospital emergency and insist on a VAT report -
At no point would any reasonable person prioritise parking paperwork over a life-threatening crisis but i dont know how to go about it - please can experts guide? thanks in advance
Also adding that i was in the hospital with my father for 30+ hours - apologies didnt mention it before but it is in the attachments an overnight stay in A&E
https://ibb.co/1JLFbK7j
https://ibb.co/HfJ6cj6Z
https://ibb.co/Tq1K4XMK
https://ibb.co/Fbf0Wkp3
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5399869,0.05295,3a,75y,163.21h,88.02t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sKNqVHusnfgdsb8-4k0myiw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.98352851365604%26panoid%3DKNqVHusnfgdsb8-4k0myiw%26yaw%3D163.20863465007477!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDUwNy4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDUzSAFQAw%3D%3D