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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Mark_Fletch13 on May 11, 2025, 01:24:34 pm

Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on June 07, 2025, 01:42:22 pm
Understood, thank you very much I will reply as you have advised electronically.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: b789 on June 05, 2025, 05:13:50 pm
Whilst we usually don't recommend wasting time and effort with an IAS appeal, you should do so anyway, just as a buggerance factor for the parking company as it will cost them unless they concede the appeal.

Just send this (not by post!!!) as your IAS appeal and don't raise your expectations beyond the fact that you have cost them a bit more money than they needed to spend:

Quote
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability for this parking charge and appeal in full.

The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must establish that a contravention occurred, that a valid contract was formed between the operator and the driver, and that it has lawful authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) in its own name. I therefore require the operator to provide the following:

1. Strict proof of clear, prominent, and adequate signage that was in place on the date in question, at the exact location of the alleged contravention. This must include a detailed site plan showing the placement of each sign and legible images of the signs in situ. The operator must demonstrate that signage was visible, legible, and compliant with the IPC Code of Practice that was valid at the time of the alleged contravention, including requirements relating to font size, positioning, and the communication of key terms.

2. Strict proof of a valid, contemporaneous contract or lease flowing from the landowner that authorises the operator to manage parking, issue PCNs, and pursue legal action in its own name. I refer the operator and the IAS assessor to Section 14 of the PPSCoP (Relationship with Landowner), which clearly sets out mandatory minimum requirements that must be evidenced before any parking charge may be issued on controlled land.

In particular, Section 14.1(a)–(j) requires the operator to have in place written confirmation from the landowner which includes:

• the identity of the landowner,
• a boundary map of the land to be managed,
• applicable byelaws,
• the duration and scope of authority granted,
• detailed parking terms and conditions including any specific permissions or exemptions,
• the means of issuing PCNs,
• responsibility for obtaining planning and advertising consents,
• and the operator’s obligations and appeal procedure under the Code.

These requirements are not optional. They are a condition precedent to issuing a PCN and bringing any associated action. Accordingly, I put the operator to strict proof of compliance with the entirety of Section 14 of the PPSCoP. Any document that contains redactions must not obscure the above conditions. The document must also be dated and signed by identifiable persons, with evidence of their authority to act on behalf of the parties to the agreement. The operator must provide an agreement showing clear authorisation from the landowner for this specific site.

3. Strict proof that the enforcement mechanism (e.g. ANPR or manual patrol) is reliable, synchronised, maintained, and calibrated regularly. The operator must prove the vehicle was present for the full duration alleged and not simply momentarily on site, potentially within a permitted consideration or grace period as defined by the PPSCoP.

4. Strict proof that the Notice to Keeper complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), if the operator is attempting to rely on keeper liability. Any failure to comply with the mandatory wording or timelines in Schedule 4 of PoFA renders keeper liability unenforceable.

5. The IAS claims that its assessors are “qualified solicitors or barristers.” Yet there is no way to verify this. Decisions are unsigned, anonymised, and unpublished. There is no transparency, no register of assessors, and no way for a motorist to assess the legal credibility of the individual supposedly adjudicating their appeal. If the person reading this really is legally qualified, they will know that without strict proof of landowner authority (VCS v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186), no claim can succeed. They will also know that clear and prominent signage is a prerequisite for contract formation (ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67), and that keeper liability under PoFA is only available where strict statutory conditions are met.

If the assessor chooses to overlook these legal requirements and accept vague assertions or redacted documents from the operator, that will speak for itself—and lend further weight to the growing concern that this appeals service is neither independent nor genuinely legally qualified.

In short, I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on June 05, 2025, 04:34:01 pm
Good afternoon,

I have recieved the reply from PCM, I know it´s a waste of time following the next level of appeal, is it best to just ignore and wait for their chosen ´debt recovery´ outfit to start sending their demanding letters? Is there something else I should do instead?

Thank you,

https://imgur.com/a/HX542ni
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: DWMB2 on May 17, 2025, 09:20:34 pm
You've mentioned that you did not sign the letter off with any name, but did you provide a name and address at the top of the letter for them to respond to? If so, did you provide the keeper's name and address, or your own?

Frankly an online appeal would be best, done in the name of the actual recipient of the notice (as the keeper).
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on May 17, 2025, 05:29:14 pm
Thank you for your continued advice. I sent it by post since that was one of the options which was detailed on the form - if it’s better to do it on the website no worries I’ll paste it there too thank you.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: b789 on May 17, 2025, 03:18:17 pm
I give up on this one. You have been advised on what to do and how to word it.

Why are you insisting on using post for an appeal? Find a valid email address or use their webform to appeal. Hopefully, someone else will assist you with this case.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on May 17, 2025, 01:23:50 pm
I sent it 2nd class, no proof of postage unfortunately.
Perhaps I should send it again with proof of postage in case they dump it straight in the bin.

The letter is as follows:

"11th May 2025

This letter refers to the the postal notification of parking charge, PCN [XXXX], date of posting of notice: 28/04/2025, date of notice given: 30/05/2025.

At the time mentioned, the vehicle in question was temporarily using the bay, under permission of the rentee for the purposes of loading and unloading, this can be observed from the photograph taken by one of your agents which clearly shows the vehicle doors being open for the loading and unloading - clearly not parked. Since loading and unloading is not parking as per Jopson v Homeguard (2016) [B9GF0A9E], this “parking charge” is not applicable.

The rental contract of the bay, which was rented from [XXXX], along with rentee´s permission, are available should you request it.

If you have any further queries, please respond via letter.

Regards."
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: b789 on May 15, 2025, 02:18:06 pm
Replied via letter (which was an alternative option to online) stating the vehicle was loading/ unloading.

Dd you send the letter First Class with a free "Proof of Posting" certificate or is you wast money on a "signed for" letter?
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: DWMB2 on May 15, 2025, 11:57:19 am
If you have essentially appealed 'anonymously' with no name provided, they may well ignore the correspondence. Was any name/address provided?

It may be helpful to show us exactly what you sent.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on May 15, 2025, 11:53:55 am
I just signed it off as “regards” that’s it
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: DWMB2 on May 15, 2025, 10:12:48 am
Ok thank you, have replied on my uncle’s behalf to which he agreed.
Just to be clear, do you mean that you signed it off as him, or you signed it of with your name but on his behalf?
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on May 15, 2025, 09:51:25 am
Ok thank you, have replied on my uncle’s behalf to which he agreed. Replied via letter (which was an alternative option to online) stating the vehicle was loading/ unloading. Also spoke in the third person to avoid naming anyone.

Will update post when I receive their snotty reply.

Thanks for the help in the meantime, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: b789 on May 11, 2025, 07:16:04 pm
For heavens sake... you never identify the driver. The driver is always liable but they have no idea who that is unless you blab it to them.

If the vehicle is registered to your uncle, then that is to whom the NtK is addressed and only he can respond. You can do it for him in his name if you want but you shouldn't identify the driver as there is absolutely no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company.

"they" cannot "require" you to so anything. They are a poxy private company with no authority to compel anyone to do anything. The PCN is in the vehicle Keepers name and so only the Keeper can respond. If the Keeper wants to throw the driver under the bus, then they can name them and be done with it as far as they are concerned.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on May 11, 2025, 07:03:38 pm
Vehicle keeper or driver. The name and address that they have is that of my uncle, whose vehicle I borrowed. What I´m saying is that from memory, they require you to identify yourself as the driver (or keeper I cannot recall), in by doing so, possibly then losing the ability to circumnavigate this as per your previous suggestion that the driver cannot be identified.

I'm suggesting that perhaps it is better to respond via a physical letter, which doesn´t require a box to be ticked identifying oneself.?
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: b789 on May 11, 2025, 06:30:32 pm
If the Keeper has received the NtK, why on earth are you hesitant to "identify: the Keeper? They have your name and address. You don't have to give them a phone number but you can easily give them an email address. If you're an Apple user, just use 'Hide My Email' or create a new gmail address for use if you don't want to use your personal one.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on May 11, 2025, 05:58:07 pm
Thank you for the prompt responses. Regarding the appeal form, would you suggest that I complete it? The first page states the following:

"Please provide full contact information so that we can respond to your challenge. It is important that you provide full contact information so that we can respond."

The fields that follow ask for name address contact details etc. (at this stage though it doesn´t ask to identify the keeper or driver). From experience that will be on the following page.

I will argue as stated that we were loaded and be sure not to identify the driver. As mentioned above however to complete the appeal online usually they require that identification to proceed. I suppose one way around would be to do a paper form which is also offered as an option.

in the meantime, I´ll also ask the landowner if such a contract exists.

Thank you
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: b789 on May 11, 2025, 05:02:49 pm
There are in fact three points to challenge this. The first is that as long as the driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability to the Keeper because the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not compliant with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a).

The second is that you can argue the case that loading and unloading is not parking as per Jopson v Homeguard (2016) [B9GF0A9E] (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ayt0unruylk8yc96qs1ku/JOPSON-V-HOMEGUARD-2906J-Approved.pdf?rlkey=s3bbv5ajumsw6m54zoj16sbom&st=gpvs3gb0&dl=0).

The third is whether PCMUK have a valid contract flowing from the landowner to actual operate and issue PCNs at the location.
Title: Re: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: jfollows on May 11, 2025, 01:32:32 pm
This probably hinges on the lease you signed for your parking bay, if this says that you are required to display a permit then you agreed to this, but if it’s silent on the subject there may be no requirement to do so and you were only displaying the permit as a courtesy, not as a requirement.

What does the lease say?
Title: Bishops Stortford, Rented private parking bay, no permit on display´ parking charge´
Post by: Mark_Fletch13 on May 11, 2025, 01:24:34 pm
Hi guys,

Another ticket from the Bishop’s Stortford contingent.

In summary, I have been paying monthly for a private parking bay underneath the block of flats where I lived until about a week ago, the bays are leased out by landlords for a fee, a permit is given to display in the car windscreen and a fob is provided to electronically open the gate to the car park.

I was moving out of the flat in question so drove my car to a nearby council run car park, and parked my uncle’s van in my bay to facilitate the move.

Unfortunately I left the permit in my car´s windscreen, in the council car park up the road.

Low and behold, this simple but unfortunate oversight has resulted in a £60 ´parking charge´ to be paid within 14 days/ £100 up to 28 days, thereafter increasing to the threatened sum of £170. This was notice issued by PCM (Parking Control Management U.K. Ltd.) on 30/04/25 for an alleged incident occurring on 28/04/25.

I know what these companies are like, and having had guidance from this forum in the past, despite me paying for and renting the bay, I am wholly expecting that to not be a ´legitimate reason´ in their eyes. They claim I am in contravention of their signage, “Parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd. permit at the time of enforcement¨, so am assuming they will not apply common sense that I already pay for there parking spot, and would rather take my cash.

I also have a friend who parked his new car in his rented bay in the same car park recently and had forgotten to move the permit from his old car to the new one. They cited the above, and ultimately he paid the amount demanded.

I concede I didn’t have the permit displayed, however since I already paid extortionate monthly rates for the bay, I am reluctant to pay for a fine for a bay which I already rented just for a slip of paperwork. I know that won’t fly with these chaps though so please tell me if there is anything I can do to get around this.

(Not sure if it’s any relevance, but I had to get the AA round since the van broke down and was stuck in that spot - it was however a couple of hours later than the time of this occurrence).

Also I haven’t yet responded to them in case there is a ´golden ticket´ that I’m not aware of. Also since I no longer live there I cannot take photos of the car park myself, I have asked a friend to do so, and will upload those pictures in addition to the letter, to the link below, when available.

Thank you

https://imgur.com/a/riverside-wharf-private-rented-bay-ticket-DSv5l57