Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Sherin on May 08, 2025, 04:56:17 pm

Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on August 19, 2025, 01:33:00 pm
It would help if the portal were working.  But:

My client relies upon his formal representations which the council have failed to consider. The PCN does not particularise which vehicles are restricted. A delay of 77 days in responding is unconscionable and the penalty required subceeds the amount.

I'll try again today after ITV 1 at 6 p.m.  8)
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on August 04, 2025, 06:58:07 am
On it.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on August 04, 2025, 05:45:24 am

Aside from this point, I think the PCN is baseless as there’s no image of the actual contravention. If you could please read the messages from others prior to submitting the reps it seemed it had legs. Any help would be much appreciated.


Did you not take up @Hippocrates kind offer in Reply#13 ?
I suggest you send him a PM.

Yep I’ve PM them
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: John U.K. on August 03, 2025, 06:26:47 am

Aside from this point, I think the PCN is baseless as there’s no image of the actual contravention. If you could please read the messages from others prior to submitting the reps it seemed it had legs. Any help would be much appreciated.


Did you not take up @Hippocrates kind offer in Reply#13 ?
I suggest you send him a PM.

Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on August 03, 2025, 05:16:47 am
UPDATE:

Just received a notice of rejection today dated 27/07/2025. I submitted reps on 11/05/25. This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?

NoJ below:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0da7bvILlwOw4bfH0p9X2REcw

Hello all. I did kind of mention the number of days indirectly. I submitted reps on 11/05/25 and received response on 27/07/25, so 77 days.
Thanks. I don't think 77 days would cut it with the adjudicators at London Tribunals, but see what others think. Don't miss the deadline for paying or submitting representations to the council, or it's game over.

Aside from this point, I think the PCN is baseless as there’s no image of the actual contravention. If you could please read the messages from others prior to submitting the reps it seemed it had legs. Any help would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Incandescent on August 02, 2025, 11:50:18 pm
UPDATE:

Just received a notice of rejection today dated 27/07/2025. I submitted reps on 11/05/25. This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?

NoJ below:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0da7bvILlwOw4bfH0p9X2REcw

Hello all. I did kind of mention the number of days indirectly. I submitted reps on 11/05/25 and received response on 27/07/25, so 77 days.
Thanks. I don't think 77 days would cut it with the adjudicators at London Tribunals, but see what others think. Don't miss the deadline for paying or submitting representations to the council, or it's game over.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on August 02, 2025, 11:33:29 pm
UPDATE:

Just received a notice of rejection today dated 27/07/2025. I submitted reps on 11/05/25. This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?

NoJ below:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0da7bvILlwOw4bfH0p9X2REcw

Hello all. I did kind of mention the number of days indirectly. I submitted reps on 11/05/25 and received response on 27/07/25, so 77 days.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Incandescent on August 01, 2025, 10:53:27 pm
As I  understand it, London Tribunals only consider anything over 3 months as unfair, but as you say, the OP hasn't told us the exact number of days.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on August 01, 2025, 08:10:24 pm
Quote
This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?
Unfortunately no, the legislation under which the PCN was served has no limit, but if it was over 3 months, it could be regarded as unfair at London Tribunals.

Oh that’s a shame. Anyway, their response was nonsensical and laughable. I guess I’m taking this to LT?

Er yes!  Do you want representation? There are loads of decisions re unconscionable delay on cp8759's initial page.

https://bit.ly/2ALghSS

scroll down to adjudications - notable cases. How many days exactly as I have lost count?
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on August 01, 2025, 03:12:31 pm
Hi everyone. Could I get some advice on the notice of rejection letter please?
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on July 30, 2025, 04:17:10 pm
Quote
This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?
Unfortunately no, the legislation under which the PCN was served has no limit, but if it was over 3 months, it could be regarded as unfair at London Tribunals.

Oh that’s a shame. Anyway, their response was nonsensical and laughable. I guess I’m taking this to LT?
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Incandescent on July 30, 2025, 02:57:54 pm
Quote
This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?
Unfortunately no, the legislation under which the PCN was served has no limit, but if it was over 3 months, it could be regarded as unfair at London Tribunals.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on July 30, 2025, 02:13:51 pm
UPDATE:

Just received a notice of rejection today dated 27/07/2025. I submitted reps on 11/05/25. This means they responded more than 56 days after! I’m sure that’s an automatic cancellation?

NoJ below:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0da7bvILlwOw4bfH0p9X2REcw
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on May 11, 2025, 01:14:18 pm
Thank you all. I have just submitted the challenge using the simple template provided by @cp8759. Thanks
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: cp8759 on May 11, 2025, 12:24:58 pm
@Sherin I hope you haven't submitted anything yet!

I've asked for the traffic order but it might not come back until 11 June, however I don't think it matters too much. See these cases:

Roger Marlow v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2170021610, 23 February 2017) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lEGiMYisrwPJkHb8oz-Qdq2CByNSeeSu/view)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v London Borough of Brent (223050929A, 13 January 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L3OEwynmO8a3iWg8Qs5pPSE8BlA_3Nl-/view)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v London Borough of Havering (223050945A, 13 January 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MEAhzT8Df7MWJhCskE7Fnl5KnqII0DQz/view)
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd v Royal Borough of Greenwich (2240260573, 15 July 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aw9Rf6MYyNsJHzsT3701sFaY2DcO_oFz/view)

Those decisions explain that the allegation of "Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types vehicle" is inadequate because it doesn't tell you what type of vehicle is prohibited, so you don't know what the accusation actually is.

If there are photos of the signs on the PCN that remedies the problem, but in this case there are no photos of any signs on the PCN, so this looks like quite a strong ground to challenge the penalty.

Here's a simple representation:

Dear London Borough of Havering,

I challenge liability because the penalty charge notice does not specify what type of vehicle is prohibited, it therefore does not provide the grounds on which the council believes a penalty is payable. Because the penalty charge notice does not comply with the requirements of section 4(8)(a)(i) of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003, no penalty may be demanded.

Yours faithfully,

Once submitted, take timed / dated screenshots of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on May 10, 2025, 09:10:09 pm
@cp8759 How fast can we obtain the TMO for this? Strategic question.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Hippocrates on May 09, 2025, 10:07:37 pm
Choose the last ground re traffic order (which belongs to an entirely different legislation) and let's see what they say to that! I am serious. Their website is even worse still.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Incandescent on May 09, 2025, 07:59:46 pm
Here is the location on GSV, but GSV latest is April 2021, so clearly the restriction wasn't there then. A look at their video shows no signs passed at all. I suggest this is a major failure of evidence, and the OP should submit reps on that basis.
Even better would be photos taken of the site locally, since GSV is too out-of-date.
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on May 09, 2025, 06:53:13 pm
Could anyone provide some advice please?
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on May 08, 2025, 06:20:21 pm
Sorry forgot to add the link for images. Please see OP now
Title: Re: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: John U.K. on May 08, 2025, 05:13:05 pm
For meaningful advice please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here all sides of the PCN (only redact name & address - leave all else in),
the video and any Council photos,
and a GSV link to the location.
Title: 52M Havering South Street RM1 PCN
Post by: Sherin on May 08, 2025, 04:56:17 pm
Hello everyone. I was in Romford and receive this PCN through the post. I don’t believe I passed a No Entry. I am a disabled blue badge user. I was travelling in my motability vehicle. The sign stated “no entry (access only)”. So I went in as I needed closer access. After I followed the road, it split into two, one with no entry and the other that allowed entry with no restrictions. So I’m confused as to why I received this PCN. The video shows no actual violation also.

Do I have a case?

https://share.icloud.com/photos/04d_VmQnXVZsJBmKIrWxra3BQ