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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: natasha1819 on May 07, 2025, 01:15:32 pm

Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: stamfordman on June 08, 2025, 09:12:03 pm
Yes it is useful and they picked up on my timing wording and presumably the reference to other cases succeeding. I think they are less confident about camera timings than other situations where de minimis can be argued, such as bus lanes and box junctions where the tribunal can't often use mitigation.
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: mrmustard on June 08, 2025, 08:48:57 pm
Thank you, that is really useful. The council have been known to refuse similar challenges and force the motorist to the tribunal.
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on June 08, 2025, 08:41:46 pm
Please find attached

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: mrmustard on June 06, 2025, 02:50:28 pm
Please upload a copy with your name and address hidden in acse it says anything of use for another pcn.
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on June 06, 2025, 02:47:17 pm
HI Stamfordman

Hope you are keeping well. I received a letter from the council today cancelling the PCN. Thank you for all your help in this matter.

Natasha
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on May 24, 2025, 04:27:31 pm
Hi Stamfordman

I submitted a response on my previous letter with emphasis on the minute difference, however I did keep the signage problem as it has recently been changed by the Council.

Thank you once again for all your time with this matter...

Hopefully I can return the favour one day...
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: stamfordman on May 19, 2025, 05:53:07 pm
I just forgot.

You need to focus on the trivial timing. The advance sign is irrelevant as you knew about the restriction.

Is the below true?

Dear Barnet,

I'm challenging the PCN because I believe I entered the restriction after its end time.

According to your video I was only about 40 seconds before but my car clock only shows times in minutes and I thought I was OK.

I believe this very small time falls into triviality - I've had a look at similar cases on the London Tribunals register and note that adjudicators take the view that less than a minute and lack of confidence in the accuracy of camera times is a minimal or 'de minimis' situation and no contravention occurred.

I trust you will see this case in the same way and look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation of this PCN.

With thanks.     

Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on May 19, 2025, 05:13:21 pm
Hi Stamfordman

Thank you for your help and sorry if I did something to irritate you...

Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on May 12, 2025, 03:57:10 pm
Hi Stamfordman

I had replied to you earlier that I was aware of the timing and the restriction but I cannot recollect if my car clock showed 4:00pm or 3:59pm.

Can you please tell me why the letter is wrong.

Thanks
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: stamfordman on May 12, 2025, 02:24:34 pm
This isn't right.

You need to answer my question - were you aware of the restriction and its timing beforehand.
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on May 11, 2025, 06:09:18 pm
Dear Stamfordman

Please find attached my PCN challenge letter.



I have received a penalty charge notice on 20th March 2025, PCN number AG48199281. The date of service of the PCN is 13th March 2025, vehicle registration number LN67 WHM.
I had spoken as well as emailed the council om 31st March 2025 about the validity of the PCN.  I received a letter from the Council on 29th April 2025 asking me to make a representation or pay the fine within the statutory timelines.
The PCN states that the vehicle failed to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (53J) between 15:00 and 16:00.  I wish to challenge this PCN on the grounds that -
•   The Enforcement Authority asserts that the said vehicle, was driven at said location at 15:59 when restricted for use by pedestrians only relies on contemporaneous photographic evidence:  Still frames taken there-from showing the said vehicle passing the applicable signs notifying motorists of the restriction.
•   The accuracy of the camera time recorder cannot be authenticated as the differential is less than a minute.
•   Also, the signage is inadequate as there seems to be a very small advance traffic sign which is covered by branches (photo attached).
 Thanks
XXXX
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: stamfordman on May 10, 2025, 10:51:24 am
I posted a tribunal decision not a representation.

Don't send anything without posting it here first.
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: mrmustard on May 10, 2025, 09:48:15 am
The representation must either be in the name of the person stated on the face of the PCN or if by some other person accompanied by a letter of authority from the person named on the PCN.
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on May 09, 2025, 08:19:25 pm
Dear Stamfordman

Thank you for your time in drafting such a detailed response.

I will submit the drafted text to Barnet council as I would like to challenge this PCN by this weekend.

Would you be interested in knowing the outcome?

Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: stamfordman on May 09, 2025, 03:21:36 pm
2240414702

1. The Enforcement Authority assert that the said vehicle, being of a class prohibited, was driven at a location at a time when restricted for use by pedestrians and vehicles of excepted classes only.
2. The Appellant denies liability for the ensuing Penalty Charge Notice on the basis of the prevailing circumstances and challenge comprehensively stated in her written representations (with supporting screen shots) which she reiterated and further detailed during the Telephone Hearing.
3. The Enforcement Authority who assert that the said vehicle was so driven contrary to an operative restriction is obliged to adduce evidence to the requisite standard to substantiate that assertion:-
The evidence upon which the Enforcement Authority rely comprises copy Penalty Charge Notice, extracts of governing Traffic Management Order provisions, and contemporaneous photographic evidence: CCTV footage and still frames taken there-from showing the said vehicle passing the applicable signs notifying motorists of the restriction.
4. The evidence adduced by the Enforcement Authority was examined to evaluate the allegation in conjunction with the Appellant's written and oral representations, and supporting documents.
I had the opportunity to assess and question the Appellant during the Hearing, I found her evidence to be cogent and credible, and I accepted it in its entirety.
The Appellant indicated that her arrival time at the School was aimed at being before the children attended; an explanation for non-receipt of other Penalty Charge Notices before the said vehicle was duly registered may be due to arrival before the restriction started.

I note that the clock counter on the contemporaneous recording demonstrates that the said vehicle comes into view 50 seconds after the restricted period commencement time.
I cannot be satisfied as to the accuracy of the camera time recorder, and I find a differential of less than one minute to be minimal, I therefore import the principle of de minimis.
Evidentially I am not satisfied that the contravention occurred, accordingly I allow this Appeal.
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on May 09, 2025, 02:57:36 pm
Thanks for your help
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: stamfordman on May 07, 2025, 11:43:59 pm
So you were aware you were just before the end time? That's not what I was hoping but reps can be crafted without telling untruths.

An alternative could have been the signage as there seems to be only one sign and a decision has been allowed for someone turning left but you turned right and there is a very small advance traffic sign. Even so I don't think the signage as of Google Maps is adequate.
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: natasha1819 on May 07, 2025, 05:45:09 pm

Hi Stamfordman...thanks for your reply.

I have uploaded the PCN and the following correspondence below -
https://imgur.com/a/cLd7E0Z

I was aware of the timing and I thought it would be silly to go all the way around for less than a minute. I am now regretting that. I am aware that people have been going down the restricted street between those times and not received a PCN.

Thanks
Title: Re: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (
Post by: stamfordman on May 07, 2025, 02:15:05 pm
Post the PCN.

It's a school street zone where the afternoon restriction end at 16:00 - your timing is in the last minute and so there's a goos shout for triviality.

But were you aware of the timing and tried to ensure you only drove through it after 16:00?
Title: London Borough of Barnet Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (came
Post by: natasha1819 on May 07, 2025, 01:15:32 pm
London Borough of Barnet
Section 53J - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (camera enforcement)
Location - Nether Street Into Essex Park N3

Hi
Before I begin, thank you to everyone who has taken their time to respond to my request and for creating this forum which us free and full of helpful advice.

I live in Courthouse Gardens (marked in a blue cross) and had to get to Wentworth avenue (marked in a blue cross) where my GP surgery is located. I have attached a map to show the two roads that have restrictions (marked in red) and the two roads (marked in black) that you would need to take to get to your location. The routes marked in black make for a much longer route to get to my destination.

I received a PCN for entering the road earlier last year in 2024 when the signs were just put up. However, after I paid the PCN, I was refunded the amount by the council.

I received another PCN on 13/03/2025 for the same offence and I had emailed the council about the fact that I had received an earlier fine and it was refunded so why had I received another one.

The council finally responded to me on 29/04/2025 asking me to pay the PCN or make representation.

The images attached show me entering the street at 15:59:18.  I have sat in my car and I did check that the car changed time slightly earlier than my phone (image attached). I was wondering if I can challenge this PCN based on the fact that it was out by seconds.

Thanks
https://imgur.com/a/cLd7E0Z