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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: U.s.0.1 on September 29, 2023, 05:08:42 pm

Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: cp8759 on January 03, 2024, 08:57:25 pm
I've finally had confirmation that the council never made a footway parking resolution, they merely rely on the traffic order (which obviously isn't a resolution).
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: Incandescent on November 14, 2023, 01:27:43 pm
Amazing. Well done !
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on November 14, 2023, 12:09:09 pm
Hey all
Just an update, the PCN has been cancelled!
Thank you again heroes!
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on October 03, 2023, 01:28:14 pm
Thank you.
Appeal sent. I will keep everyone posted.
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: cp8759 on October 03, 2023, 01:01:52 pm
Quote from: U.s.0.1 on October 03, 2023, 10:25:25 am
Just one more quick question before I appeal, the appeal form has mandatory fields for entering the name and address. Do I fill in these accurately?
I remember something about appealing before and mentioning you are just the registered keeper of the car and not the owner, and there are no fields for this.
Anyone can appeal a roadside PCN, in any event of course you should fill these fields in accurately.
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on October 03, 2023, 10:25:25 am
Thanks.
Just one more quick question before I appeal, the appeal form has mandatory fields for entering the name and address. Do I fill in these accurately?
I remember something about appealing before and mentioning you are just the registered keeper of the car and not the owner, and there are no fields for this.
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: cp8759 on October 02, 2023, 11:49:24 pm
No, it's up to them to investigate the situation. You can pretty much guarantee everything you say will be rejected, it's only at the tribunal that you get a fair hearing, so we have to go through the motions.
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on October 02, 2023, 11:00:48 pm
Thank you.
Would I need to attach any images to the appeal at all?
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: cp8759 on October 02, 2023, 10:50:26 pm
Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Havering,

I dispute liability for PCN HG21082950 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. The driver turned into Edison Avenue from Grenfell Avenue, and on this route there are no signs that indicate that footway parking is permitted in marked bays only. While the CEO has photographed one such sign, the sign is facing against the direction that the driver was driving in.

Oddly there is a sign that indicates footway parking is generally permitted, that sign would have been passed by the driver and it was visible on google street view between 2008 and 2014, it is apparent this sign has completely faded away. However even if it hadn't faded to such an extent as being basically useless, the point remains that that is the only sign that the driver would have passed and it does not have a legend indicating "in marked bays".

Where footway parking is permitted on a road, the council is required by section 15(5) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 to provide adequate signage indicating the extent of the restriction. In this instance the council has defaulted on this duty, and it follows that the alleged contravention did not occur.


As always send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on October 02, 2023, 01:18:03 pm
Hi
You are correct, the sign is completely faded away on the other side of the lamppost:
https://ibb.co/pdvjXfN
https://ibb.co/hKDyH4c
https://ibb.co/xM4rZBt
https://ibb.co/72SNJg2
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: cp8759 on October 01, 2023, 11:02:46 am
Quote from: U.s.0.1 on October 01, 2023, 06:02:34 am
Hi cp
Sure. Do you essentially want a photo of behind this lamppost, behind this blue In Marked Bays Only sign?
Yes please.
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on October 01, 2023, 06:02:34 am
Hi cp
Sure. Do you essentially want a photo of behind this lamppost, behind this blue In Marked Bays Only sign?

She did indeed turn in from grenfell FYI, if that helps
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: cp8759 on October 01, 2023, 12:24:35 am
At first sight the images from the CEO look compelling:

(https://i.imgur.com/wZK3MFe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/3pYCsa1.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/uGw5EAB.jpg)

However on closer inspection, the sign he photographed is behind the car and would not have been passed, assuming the driver turned into the road from Grenfell Avenue and did not make a u-turn: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZhnELpyEu1cFQ2xw6

There are no signs that would have been passed on that route:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8pvaBLdG2VmTsXQw5
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1qPyFwbFg39CQv7A8

So the signage is arguably not adequate. Further to this, I will request the footway parking resolution for this road, as it may well exempt the entire street.

Funnily enough there is a sign that would have been passed according to the 2014 GSV: https://maps.app.goo.gl/1qPyFwbFg39CQv7A8

I wonder if it's completely faded, or if it appears so owing to the angle of the light when the google car went by. Is there any chance you could get us an updated photo?
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on September 30, 2023, 05:42:09 am
Hi Andersen
Are you saying I have grounds to appeal then? If so, Is there a template I can follow based on this information?
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: H C Andersen on September 29, 2023, 07:19:41 pm

GSV is 5-years old, so possibly of limited help.

The signage does not appear to be of the required standard in GSV e.g. there's a sign at the junction of Edision and Grenfell but this is orientated for traffic passing along Grenfell, where there aren't any footway parking areas, and not traffic turning into Edison. I suspect they put it there because it's on the same column as the street sign and they expect drivers to join up the dots!

But the fundamental problem is that parking on the footway is prohibited by statute and in default i.e. it does not require signs, therefore on the face of it she was in contravention.

The potential existence of a white knight arises because the council had to disapply the statute for the boxed areas and often when this is done they simply allow parking along the whole street and think that adding markings can be done later as a purely administrative arrangement. But it cannot, they must either specify exactly where the boxes are to go and their size or, at a questionable push, delegate authority to the council's Director of Highways or equivalent in consultation with one or more specified councillors to add this detail.

Until they produce the council resolution you won't know whether the location allows parking, albeit that they've c****d-up the markings or whether it's only boxed areas in which parking is allowed.
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on September 29, 2023, 06:26:20 pm
1 Edison Ave
https://maps.app.goo.gl/kozrLm1HvVjYGuXC6

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: Pastmybest on September 29, 2023, 05:47:53 pm
post a link to GSV so we can have a look around
Title: Windscreen PCN Romford parking over pathway
Post by: U.s.0.1 on September 29, 2023, 05:08:42 pm
Hi all
My wife received a windscreen PCN in Romford yesterday. Details are as follows:
London Borough of Havering
Edison Ave, Hornchurch
Alleged contravention code 622
Parked with wheels on or over footpath or any part of road other than carriageway

My wife states she did indeed park over a footpath (pictures and vids below), HOWEVER, as you can see, so did the other cars. The only difference was the other cars were parked in bays. She parked over a curb which did not have a bay. There was a sign some some steps away as you can see, which she did not see. She was technically in the wrong, and essentially I wanted to find out if it is worth fighting this PCN.
I have taken pictures from google maps, and the pictures taken when she got back to her car. Hopefully these help

Google maps images:
https://ibb.co/HTctM9z
https://ibb.co/L9tz9s4
https://ibb.co/bbxX7XR

Pictures taken at that time:
https://ibb.co/nC0Fkt3
https://ibb.co/0KMZ0mf

PCN pics:
https://ibb.co/Vp059Cq
https://ibb.co/Hdnw7R5
https://ibb.co/mbjPCgX

I'm not hopeful on this one but would love it if we could beat them on this somehow

Thanks all