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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: helpmeplease on April 29, 2025, 11:53:12 pm

Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: b789 on August 19, 2025, 07:16:44 pm
Yes, you should ask for access. You’re entitled to see exactly what they claim to have as evidence. If they say documents have been uploaded to a portal but don’t give you access credentials or a way to log in, then they are still in breach of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

The Protocol requires them to provide sufficient detail of the claim and supply relevant documents either with the Letter of Claim or promptly upon request. Simply referring to an inaccessible online portal is not enough. Until they give you proper access or send the documents directly, the 30-day period to respond cannot properly begin.

You can email them, ask for access or direct provision of the documents, and request that the 30-day timeline be reset once that information is received. Use this to email them:

Quote
Subject: Failure to Provide Access to Portal – Breach of Pre-Action Protocol

Dear Sirs,

I refer to your recent correspondence asserting that documentation relevant to your client’s claim has been made available via an online portal. Despite this claim, I have not been provided with any login credentials or information to access said portal, nor is there any facility for me to register independently. This renders your purported disclosure entirely inaccessible.

This is not a trivial oversight. You remain in clear breach of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, which requires the claimant to supply sufficient information and evidence to allow the alleged debtor to understand and respond meaningfully to the claim. A reference to an inaccessible portal does not meet that obligation.

Accordingly, I require you to either (a) provide working access credentials immediately, or (b) furnish the documents directly via email or post without further delay. Until this material is properly supplied, the 30-day period for a substantive response under the Protocol has not commenced, and you are put on notice that any attempt to issue proceedings without first complying with the Protocol will be considered premature and unreasonable.

The burden is on your client to comply. I remain willing to respond substantively upon receipt of the documents and information I am entitled to under paragraphs 3.1 and 6 of the Protocol. That includes, but is not limited to, a copy of the Notice to Keeper, contemporaneous signage photographs, the relevant contractual terms, landowner authority, and a clear breakdown of the sums claimed.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: helpmeplease on August 19, 2025, 06:21:05 pm
they have not provided a log in for their portal and i have been unable to make one. should i email them to resolve this and ask they reset the 30 days until i have received the documents.
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: b789 on August 19, 2025, 04:25:36 pm
Typical rubbish from the incompetents. They claim that the terms and conditions were displayed on signage at the car park and that the vehicle was observed during restricted hours, from 22:01 to 22:25. They state that a £70 debt recovery fee is allowed under the BPA and IPC Codes of Practice and is considered fair because it is supposedly approved by the ATA. They assert that by entering the private land, a contract was formed and breached by staying during prohibited hours. They note that the matter has been placed on hold for 30 days due to an indication that debt advice is being sought but warn that a County Court claim may follow if payment is not made.

However, their response fails to address the key issues raised in your earlier reply. They have not provided the information and documents required under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims and the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct. Specifically, they have not supplied a copy of the Notice to Keeper, photographs of the signage from the date of the incident, a copy of the contract terms they rely on, evidence of the landowner’s authority to issue charges, or a proper breakdown of the charges. All of this is required under paragraphs 3.1, 5.1, 5.2 and 6(a) to (c) of the Protocol and Practice Direction.

Their justification for the £70 fee relies on the ATA, which is not a regulator. Its guidance is not binding, and it does not have the authority to declare fees fair in law. Courts have repeatedly rejected this add-on, particularly in the case of Excel v Wilkinson (2020), where the judge ruled that the £70 was a false fee and not recoverable as part of the debt.

Their conduct still does not meet the expectations of pre-action engagement. They have avoided answering the points raised and continue to withhold basic documents that are necessary to assess the claim. Without these, there can be no meaningful discussion or opportunity to resolve the matter before court. This fails the requirement under paragraph 4 of the Pre-Action Protocol for both sides to exchange relevant information and try to settle the matter without proceedings.

Their letter refers to an "online portal" where documents have supposedly been uploaded for your review. It would be sensible to check exactly what has been provided, as this may reveal whether they've partially complied with the Pre-Action Protocol or are relying on generic or inadequate evidence.

Please log in to their portal and download everything they’ve uploaded, including:

• The alleged Notice to Keeper (NtK)
• Signage images (check whether they are dated or generic)
• Any landowner authority agreement
• The purported contract terms
• Any payment breakdown
• Any correspondence history

Once downloaded, please redact any personal information (name, address, VRM, reference numbers), then upload the files here or preferably, host them on Google Drive and share a view-only link.

Once We’ve seen what they’re relying on, we can provide a detailed breakdown of:

• What’s missing
• Whether the documents comply with PoFA and the Pre-Action Protocol
• What to say in response (if anything)
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: helpmeplease on August 19, 2025, 01:49:38 pm
looking at this reply i received to my complaint in 2021.The part where it said "For the avoidance of doubt, no further correspondence other payment or an appeal from the driver will be addressed or responded to at this time."  I thought they meant that they would no longer contact me for the issue but i think maybe they made a typo? does this help my case at all? i thik they meant to type "For the avoidance of doubt, no further correspondence other *THAN* payment or an appeal from the driver will be addressed or responded to at this time." "than" being the keyword but given the context that they have decided to seek litigation this is not what they meant. [attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: helpmeplease on August 19, 2025, 12:51:18 pm
This is their response. There was no mention of 22:00-0600 embargo on entering the car park on the first sign when entering the car park and I have evidence of that at the time. since then the carpark company has changed due to a lot of complaints at the time that fines were being received. [attach=1][attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: b789 on August 08, 2025, 11:25:08 am
Respond by email to help@moorsidelegal.co.uk and CC yourself with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

As a firm of supposed solicitors, one would expect you to be capable of crafting a letter that aligns with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions do not exist for decoration—they exist to facilitate informed discussion and proportionate resolution. You might wish to reacquaint yourselves with them.

The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols (Part 3), stipulate that prior to proceedings, parties should have exchanged sufficient information to understand each other’s position. Part 6 helpfully clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.

Your template letter mentions a “contract”, yet fails to provide one. This would appear to undermine the only foundation upon which your client’s claim allegedly rests. It’s difficult to engage in meaningful pre-litigation dialogue when your side declines to furnish the very document it purports to enforce.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that confirms any PoFA 2012 liability
2. A copy of the contract (or contracts) you allege exists between your client and the driver, in the form of an actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date, not a generic stock image
3. The exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which is (are) relied upon that you allege to have been breached
4. The written agreement between your client and the landowner, establishing authority to enforce
5. A breakdown of the charges claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and whether the £70 “debt recovery” fee includes VAT

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: helpmeplease on August 07, 2025, 07:47:44 pm
Anyone can be a debt collector. Trace are powerless to "instruct" anyone to take legal action for something they are not a contractual party to. Please stop trying to overthink this.

Even though Moorside are a firm of legal incompetents, until they are instructed by the creditor who is the claimant, they can send as much rubbish as they like threatening whatever they want. Only after the creditor instructs them to send a Letter of Claim (LoC) do they become a firm of incompetent wannabe legals with authority to act for the claimant.

Trace and anyone else for that matter cannot instruct solicitors to ca for them if they do not have a contract with the driver. All they can do is persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

When you receive an LoC, then come back and show us and we will advise on the next step.

I have now recieved a letter of claim from moorside legal.
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: b789 on August 05, 2025, 05:58:17 pm
Anyone can be a debt collector. Trace are powerless to "instruct" anyone to take legal action for something they are not a contractual party to. Please stop trying to overthink this.

Even though Moorside are a firm of legal incompetents, until they are instructed by the creditor who is the claimant, they can send as much rubbish as they like threatening whatever they want. Only after the creditor instructs them to send a Letter of Claim (LoC) do they become a firm of incompetent wannabe legals with authority to act for the claimant.

Trace and anyone else for that matter cannot instruct solicitors to ca for them if they do not have a contract with the driver. All they can do is persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

When you receive an LoC, then come back and show us and we will advise on the next step.
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: helpmeplease on August 05, 2025, 05:47:00 pm
Ignore everything except Letter of Claim (LoC). Come back when you receive one. Until then, Moorside are acting as a debt collector and can be ignored.

I thought trace debt recovery were the debt collectors as they said they would refer the issue to ligation which they have done and now moorside legal are contacting me. Moorside said they have sent me a letter but i cant remember receiving one. should i ask them to resend in case it was a letter of claim?

If i do receive an upto date letter of claim what should i do then?
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: jfollows on August 05, 2025, 05:17:05 pm
And block their number, you have no use for their text messages.
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: b789 on August 05, 2025, 05:13:34 pm
Ignore everything except Letter of Claim (LoC). Come back when you receive one. Until then, Moorside are acting as a debt collector and can be ignored.
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: helpmeplease on August 05, 2025, 05:03:40 pm
You are dealing with an IPC member and no appeal would ever have been successful. Complete waste of time!

Ignore any debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, EVER enter into communication with a useless debt collector.

Alliance would have to issue a new Letter of Claim (LoC) if they want to make a claim as the original one is from June 2021.

For now, IGNORE all debt recovery letters. We do not need to know about them and you can use them as emergency toilet paper for all they are worth.

If/when you receive another LoC, come back and we can advise further.

I have now received letters and text messages from "moorside legal" to pay £170  to avoid further action.
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: b789 on April 30, 2025, 06:30:06 pm
Ignore any debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, EVER enter into communication with a useless debt collector.
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: helpmeplease on April 30, 2025, 04:13:22 pm
You are dealing with an IPC member and no appeal would ever have been successful. Complete waste of time!

Ignore any debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, EVER enter into communication with a useless debt collector.

Alliance would have to issue a new Letter of Claim (LoC) if they want to make a claim as the original one is from June 2021.

For now, IGNORE all debt recovery letters. We do not need to know about them and you can use them as emergency toilet paper for all they are worth.

If/when you receive another LoC, come back and we can advise further.

THANK YOU for your reassurance. However I did contact the debt recovery group to try and appeal in the hopes they would drop it. now that i have contacted theM ... is there anything i should do? or just ignore them from now on?[attachimg=2]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: DWMB2 on April 30, 2025, 03:46:10 pm
Yes, but that was sent in June 2021.
Quite right, I'd missed that
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: b789 on April 30, 2025, 01:44:33 pm
Yes, but that was sent in June 2021. Although the Protocol doesn’t state a hard expiry date, courts expect fair notice before a claim is made. A 2021 LoC followed by years of silence is no longer “pre-action” communication – it's stale and unfair. A creditor must give fresh notice before suing, especially if the delay is measured in years.

This is supported by commentary in:

• The White Book (CPR commentary used by judges),
• Court judgments on procedural fairness (Grovit v Doctor [1997] 1 WLR 640),
• The Overriding Objective in CPR 1.1 to deal with cases justly and fairly.

The need for a new LoC after a long gap is well established in civil procedure practice and would be enforced by a court as part of fair conduct.
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: DWMB2 on April 30, 2025, 01:32:19 pm
They have seemingly received a LoC, it's the first attachment.

Included below as images for ease:

(https://i.imgur.com/158Lrgw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/UM6qXwC.png)
Title: Re: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: b789 on April 30, 2025, 01:08:37 pm
You are dealing with an IPC member and no appeal would ever have been successful. Complete waste of time!

Ignore any debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, EVER enter into communication with a useless debt collector.

Alliance would have to issue a new Letter of Claim (LoC) if they want to make a claim as the original one is from June 2021.

For now, IGNORE all debt recovery letters. We do not need to know about them and you can use them as emergency toilet paper for all they are worth.

If/when you receive another LoC, come back and we can advise further.
Title: Alliance Parking. Debt Recovery Letter. Trace Debt Recovery.
Post by: helpmeplease on April 29, 2025, 11:53:12 pm
The driver is accused of parking in a 2 hour no return private alliance managed ANPR car park. The restriction was no parking between the hours of 22:00 and 06:00. The signage at the entrance of the car park did not display this. The driver was not to know this information prior to entering the carpark. The driver remained in the carpark for around 25 minutes to re-inflate the car tire and try to figure out if the car was safe to drive as a warning light appeared and the carpark was the closest and safest place to stop.

I cannot locate the original PCN letter.

I am the registered keeper.The date of the alleged parking infraction was 28/04/2021. PCN was issued on the 06/05/2021. The letter arrived 15/05/2021.

- There is 17 days between the alleged parking issue and the arrival of the letter. 

Following a Money expert template an appeal was made and no points in the appeal were addressed and the respondence mentioned that no further contact would be made. Then an increased parking charge arrived and when I emailed no response was made. I then forwarded a complaint and they said it was an appeal not a complaint so then I replied with a complaint that my appeal had not been considered fully. All attached below.


Fast forward to today and a debt recovery letter has arrived, 4 years later. Posted on the 23/04/2025 and arrived today 29/04/2025.

[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3][attach=4]

[attachment deleted by admin]