Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: HateTFL on April 26, 2025, 05:01:32 pm
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I agree. All of the drivers were doing their best to comply and taking a purposive approach there was ample room for vehicles to exit/enter the side turning.
I think that most adjudicators would allow this Appeal but only if you argue in person (video calls are now the norm). Don't leave it to chance with a postal decision based upon the paperwork alone.
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Video shows a large gap to the car in front, (about 1.5 metres, I'd say). Plus the stop was minimal. A typical money-grubbing PCN from this shameless council. Well worth taking it all the way IMHO.
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The video was put here https://youtu.be/AwCfPx-R000
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Very well drafted reps, even if I say so myself.
Can you post the video up please to allow us to check out the state of play?
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This is pure explotation by the council
Is the blue car at fault for being a little in the yelloe box? This is atrap - I appealed it as follows
As you will be aware, a box junction contravention only occurs if a vehicle HAS TO [my emphasis] stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles. Put another way, if there is sufficient room to exit the box junction (often referred to as the exit being clear) then no contravention is committed even if a vehicle stops with a part of the vehicle within the box junction. In this instance, having reviewed the footage there was 40 cm of space in front of the vehicle to accommodate my vehicle. My vehicle (a mini) is small and on this basis there was clearly sufficient room for my vehicle to completely pass through the box junction. Accordingly I didn't have to stop within the box junction (the vehicle only did so as the driver was under a misapprehension they had already fully cleared the junction).
Should you reject these representations please confirm that you have carefully considered (and understood!) my point above by explaining the basis for your belief that there was not space for my vehicle (space beyond the box junction to the car in front). You have a duty to act fairly, and a templated statement that "the CCTV evidence confirms the vehicle entered and stopped in the box junction without ensuring that the exit was clear" without backing this statement up with precisely how this has been "confirmed" will demonstrate that you have not considered my representations in any way "carefully". The angle of the video footage, and the resulting foreshortening effect, makes it impossible to judge the distance left between my vehicle and the car in front to the necessary degree of accuracy simply from a cursory review of the video images.
Notwithstanding my main point, above, the level of incursion and brevity of the stop within the box junction is so trivial as to constitute de minimis in any event. Please see London Tribunal decisions 2240537258 and 216036762A for guidelines of what is considered a de minimis offence (i.e. a vehicle stopping with only its back wheels on or within box junction markings, and/or only for a few seconds).
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