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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: taketheg on September 26, 2023, 06:09:54 pm

Title: Re: 50L - Performing Prohibited Turn - LB Wandsworth, PCN received 9 months later?
Post by: H C Andersen on September 27, 2023, 02:53:17 pm

Thanks.

Title: Re: 50L - Performing Prohibited Turn - LB Wandsworth, PCN received 9 months later?
Post by: cp8759 on September 27, 2023, 12:20:42 am

@H C Andersen if you tick the "Don't use smileys." box you can turn off the emoticons, I've done this for you in the post above.

@taketheg here is a representation for you:

Dear London Borough of Wandsworth,

We challenge liability for PCN WA87448436 on the ground that the penalty charge notice has been served out of time. Obviously if the council wants to claim any exemption for the primary limitation period, the burden of proof rests on the council.

Yours faithfully,

As my colleague above says, contact the dealer and get copies of any correspondence they have received from, or sent to the council.

Title: Re: 50L - Performing Prohibited Turn - LB Wandsworth, PCN received 9 months later?
Post by: H C Andersen on September 26, 2023, 07:10:22 pm

Says who?

The grounds are that the penalty demanded etc.  circumstances of the case'. The circumstances here being that the authority is barred from serving a PCN, and therefore demanding a penalty, by virtue of s6 of the London Local Authorities' etc. Act, reproduced below:

6 Limitation on service of penalty charge notice

(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.

(2)Subject to the provisions of this section, where—

(a)a penalty charge notice has been cancelled under paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to this Act; or

(b)a penalty charge notice has been cancelled in compliance with a direction given by a traffic adjudicator under paragraph 4(2) of the said Schedule; or

©a penalty charge notice is deemed to have been cancelled under paragraph 7(8)© of the said Schedule (deemed cancellation where a statutory declaration under paragraph 7(2)(a) of that Schedule is served under paragraph 7(1)©),

the borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be, may not serve a fresh penalty charge notice after the expiry of the period of 28 days from the date of the cancellation of the penalty charge notice or, in a case falling within paragraph © above, the date on which that council or body are served with notice under paragraph 7(8)(d) of the said Schedule.

If the council believe they are so entitled then the burden lies with them to establish which of the conditions applies and in whichever case to provide sufficient detail such that their compliance with the requirement to serve a 'fresh penalty notice..within 28 days..' may be examined.

But as I posted in the other place, make use of your time and contact the dealer to see whether they've had correspondence with the council.

Your V5C arriving in Feb. 2023 after you buying the vehicle new in October 2022, a contravention in Dec. 2022 and the late service of your PCN are hardly likely to be unconnected, are they?

Apologies for the emoticons, they've crept in under the radar!

Title: Re: 50L - Performing Prohibited Turn - LB Wandsworth, PCN received 9 months later?
Post by: taketheg on September 26, 2023, 06:37:04 pm

Thanks, but on what grounds exactly can you make representations? There isn't an 'out of time' option. In any case, I would need to quote the exact legal reason why the notice is invalid.

Title: Re: 50L - Performing Prohibited Turn - LB Wandsworth, PCN received 9 months later?
Post by: Incandescent on September 26, 2023, 06:18:26 pm

As I sai on PPP, it looks out-of-time, so submit reps on this basis.

Title: 50L - Performing Prohibited Turn - LB Wandsworth, PCN received 9 months later?
Post by: taketheg on September 26, 2023, 06:09:54 pm

Hi, we've just received the attached PCN for a prohibited left turn (50L) on Wimbledon Parkside in December 2022.

I don't have any reason to doubt that the alleged offence was committed by one of our company vehicles, however:

a) This is the first communication we have received relating to this alleged offence
b) The alleged offence was committed 9 months ago
c) The vehicle was new in October 2022 (having being fitted with a bespoke tipper body) but we didn't receive the V5c until February 2023.

Why weren't we contacted sooner and can we argue on 'time out' grounds?

Please advise[attachimg=2]

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