Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: ConfusedD on September 25, 2023, 01:39:45 pm
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The reason for the PCN is on the bailiff notice. Somebody drove your car past the no motor vehicles signs on Browning Road. The so-called flying motorcycle signs. See here. (https://www.newham.gov.uk/transport-streets/browning-road-bridge-area-traffic-scheme)
(https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/dictionary/flying-motorbike)
Only busses, taxis and local resident permit holders are allowed.
Edit: For some reason the picture of the sign I linked to isn't visible
Is there any chance of seeing the original PCN now so I don't make the same mistake again?
If you ask the council they should provide it. If they prove unresponsive, you can make a subject access request under GDPR.
Thanks, both of you.
I didn't know about the restriction for buses, taxis, and permit holders only. I sometimes take this route when driving to Ilford, so I'll definitely be careful to avoid it now.
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Is there any chance of seeing the original PCN now so I don't make the same mistake again?
If you ask the council they should provide it. If they prove unresponsive, you can make a subject access request under GDPR.
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The reason for the PCN is on the bailiff notice. Somebody drove your car past the no motor vehicles signs on Browning Road. The so-called flying motorcycle signs. See here. (https://www.newham.gov.uk/transport-streets/browning-road-bridge-area-traffic-scheme)
(https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/dictionary/flying-motorbike)
Only busses, taxis and local resident permit holders are allowed.
Edit: For some reason the picture of the sign I linked to isn't visible
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I contacted the number in the Notice of Enforcement, updated my address, and confirmed the payment of the debt and compliance stage fee. After checking everything, OneSource Enforcement Services confirmed that the account is closed with them.
Is there any chance of seeing the original PCN now so I don't make the same mistake again?
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Is there any potential for leniency in my case, even though I acknowledge our significant oversight in not promptly updating the address?
There is already leniency, because while DVLA could take out a criminal prosecution against you for failing to update your V5C, they are unlikely to do so. That spares you a criminal conviction (that you would need to disclose in job applications, could affect your ability to travel abroad etc).
I realise some aspects of VERA 1994 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/contents) can seem harsh, but it is what it is.
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I'm afraid the English civil law can be very harsh, as you have found out. There is nothing to stop you from submitting an OOT Statutory Declaration, even though you've paid, but as I said before, it's unlikely to succeed. I say this because I've seen too many V5 address cases on this forum to be optimistic.
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OP, don't be under any illusions that this matter will be easy to overturn and get you back to the original PCN penalty. In most cases we see the bailiffs have already started and added on their fee(s). You admit you were late updating the V5. The council will receive your OOT via TEC, and have the right of objection. If you can pay the OfR amount now, I would do so.
I understand that this situation is challenging , especially if bailiffs have already become involved. But we haven't been given any chance to see the PCN? The date of contravention is the 25th Feb, and the address was updated on the 15th March. As you can see, the time difference falls within the usual 28-day timeframe for receiving postal PCNs according to legislation. but we're just unlucky!
We have now paid the OfR amount (£204). However, as I mentioned, I met the person living in our old address, and they handed me a notice of enforcement dated 12th Sept 2023. This has added another £75 for a compliance stage fee, which is paid as well this evening.
However, on the reverse side of this notice, they've indicated that if the payment is made after September 23rd, we will be liable for additional fees and expenses. Given that today is the 26th, it's evident we will incur those as well. Is there any potential for leniency in my case, even though I acknowledge our significant oversight in not promptly updating the address?
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OP, don't be under any illusions that this matter will be easy to overturn and get you back to the original PCN penalty. In most cases we see the bailiffs have already started and added on their fee(s). You admit you were late updating the V5. The council will receive your OOT via TEC, and have the right of objection. If you can pay the OfR amount now, I would do so.
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PEC means ? Did you mean TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court)?
And whose number have you mean phoning? Newham Council or the TEC?
It's not PEC, sorry it's TEC. The contact number was in the OfR and also included in the email where the administrative officer sent PE2.
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PEC means ? Did you mean TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court)?
And whose number have you been phoning? Newham Council or the TEC?
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Am I okay to submit the PE2 and PE3 forms now or should I consider the advice of PEC whom I spoke again, which was to make the payment and proceed with the forms?
I'm somewhat puzzled by this situation, but want to ensure that I understand the contravention for which I received the PCN to prevent future occurrences.
:(
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Let's see.
The windowed envelope that the OfR arrived in has a hand written new address?
Yes -someone has handwritten it
But does the OfR document itself have your correct and current address? Or is it the old address?
it had our old address
Don't submit the PE2/PE3 until it's clear what you're going to say about being late.
Also you updated the V5c RK address on March 15th. The contravention was Feb 25th When exactly did you move?
We moved in December 2021, and completely overlooked updating the address on the V5C. It wasn't until we sold one of our cars in March 2023 that we realized the address had not been updated. We took corrective action to update it in March 2023.
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Let's see.
The windowed envelope that the OfR arrived in has a hand written new address?
But does the OfR document itself have your correct and current address? Or is it the old address?
Don't submit the PE2/PE3 until it's clear what you're going to say about being late.
Also you updated the V5c RK address on March 15th. The contravention was Feb 25th When exactly did you move?
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I called the number provided in the OfR, and the administrative officer agreed to email me PE2, advising that I submit both PE3 and PE2 today. He is uncertain if the case has been escalated to bailiffs yet, but due to the date of the unpaid notice (July), he advised me to promptly email the forms.
I also consulted a local solicitor who is familiar with PE2 and PE3 forms. The solicitor has agreed to witness my submission, ticking the box that states:
"I did not receive the: Notice to Owner (Parking Contravention) or Enforcement Notice (Bus Lane Contravention) or Penalty Charge Notice (Moving Traffic Contravention or Congestion Charging Contravention)."
I will email these documents to tec@justice.gov.uk.
Is there anything else I should consider to expedite the process?
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Sorry, didn't realise.
YOur OfR is dated 27th July so you are well outside any possibility of submitting an in-time Statutory Declaration.
Probably the best option is to pay the OfR now, before bailiffs get involved, assuming they will accept it. I'm sure you don't want to have to pay this plus bailiff fees.
If we pay the OfR now, will they consider to refund since we never received this PCN in the first place?
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Sorry, didn't realise.
YOur OfR is dated 27th July so you are well outside any possibility of submitting an in-time Statutory Declaration.
Probably the best option is to pay the OfR now, before bailiffs get involved, assuming they will accept it. I'm sure you don't want to have to pay this plus bailiff fees.
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Please post-up the Order fror Recovery. Leave dates in.
hi Incandescent , I have posted all the documents I received. Please let me know if the images are unclear or difficult to read.
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Please post-up the Order fror Recovery. Leave dates in.
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I checked now :( and noticed that the change was not made immediately, we only made the change this March after the PCN contravention was issued. Unfortunately, we didn't receive all the Correspondence until today. Even if we want to pay this PCN, we have lost the discounted period.
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What is the date on your updated V5C?
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More pictures
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This morning, we received an unexpected ORDER OF RECOVERY of unpaid penalty charge, which is the first time we've encountered such a notice. Surprisingly, the address mentioned on the PCN appears to be our old address. We completed our move in December 2021, and all our car details, including insurance, have been updated with the DVLA to reflect our current address. It's perplexing how this penalty notice ended up at our previous address.
As you can see on the envelope, our new address has been handwritten. While we plan to reach out to the individuals currently residing at our old address to inquire about this, we also want to know how to go about appealing this case. Specifically since this is the first time we have been made aware of this PCN.
Given this situation, we would greatly appreciate your guidance on how to proceed with this case.
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