Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: ugo on April 10, 2025, 07:13:52 pm
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I saw a tribunal case recently which was pretty tough on the appellant but which shows adjudicators hands are tied on mitigation.
Someone had a heavy broken down motorbike he pushed through a LTN filter to get to a garage and had repair billing evidence - the alternative was to push it a long way round the block or get it recovered. No joy with council which should really have used discretion and the adjudicator could have made a recommendation.
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Appeal filed.
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Now in direct contact with the OP. Offered to pay half if I lose. :)
The main collateral issues:
1. The PCN.
2. The website.
I have all the relevant cases in support.
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I agree that if the NOR and website are not aligned then this is one thing.
But IMO, to repeat the offer in the NOR as regards the 'discount' on the website is perfectly permissible and surely has no more bearing on the recipient's appeal rights than the NOR.
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@Hippocrates, surely the website simply reiterates what's been conveyed in the NOR. How could there be anything untoward in the website and NOR being aligned, after all one of your successful lines at adjudication has been where they are not which would suggest they're in a no-win situation.
A non-statutory discount/offer/bribe/carrot is always conditional.
@ H C Andersen: the dates are all over the place/contradictory.
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What is the actual date of the Notice of Rejection? I cannot work out if their dates are correct without this. And when did you receive it?
The rejection letter is dated 10/04/2025
Can you help me understand where you're going with this please? It sounds like you may be looking for a reason why the rejection is invalid (e.g. given the dates if they responded late), but you think that there's no other reason to appeal their decision, correct?
@ugo
1. 10th April? Please confirm.
The amount outstanding on the PCN is £65.00, and will increase to £130.00 on Fri, 25 Apr 2025. However, this PCN currently has an offer, meaning you can pay at a reduced rate of £65.00. This offer expires on Tue, 22 Apr 2025. Please pay £65.00 now.
You have already made representations for this PCN and we replied on Thu, 3 Apr 2025. You cannot make representations twice.
2. They should not be requesting £65 before you have appealed to the Tribunal. This is opportunistic and prejudicial.
3. This is total bolleaux and I say Tribunal time.
More than happy to represent f.o.c.
1- Yes - their rejection is dated 10/04
Notice of Rejection of representations
PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE NUMBER: QZ18620254
Our Ref: QZ18620254
10/04/2025
2- Why is that? What they said is attached
3- Ok, on what basis? I'm happy to do so, do you want to send me a message with your email and I can get in touch?
Thank you!
1. Thanks.
2 Website: Please pay £65.00 now. No way, Jose! It fetters your right to appeal.
3. There are many points to win this case. I will drop you a PM.
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@Hippocrates, surely the website simply reiterates what's been conveyed in the NOR. How could there be anything untoward in the website and NOR being aligned, after all one of your successful lines at adjudication has been where they are not which would suggest they're in a no-win situation.
A non-statutory discount/offer/bribe/carrot is always conditional.
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What is the actual date of the Notice of Rejection? I cannot work out if their dates are correct without this. And when did you receive it?
The rejection letter is dated 10/04/2025
Can you help me understand where you're going with this please? It sounds like you may be looking for a reason why the rejection is invalid (e.g. given the dates if they responded late), but you think that there's no other reason to appeal their decision, correct?
@ugo
1. 10th April? Please confirm.
The amount outstanding on the PCN is £65.00, and will increase to £130.00 on Fri, 25 Apr 2025. However, this PCN currently has an offer, meaning you can pay at a reduced rate of £65.00. This offer expires on Tue, 22 Apr 2025. Please pay £65.00 now.
You have already made representations for this PCN and we replied on Thu, 3 Apr 2025. You cannot make representations twice.
2. They should not be requesting £65 before you have appealed to the Tribunal. This is opportunistic and prejudicial.
3. This is total bolleaux and I say Tribunal time.
More than happy to represent f.o.c.
1- Yes - their rejection is dated 10/04
Notice of Rejection of representations
PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE NUMBER: QZ18620254
Our Ref: QZ18620254
10/04/2025
2- Why is that? What they said is attached
3- Ok, on what basis? I'm happy to do so, do you want to send me a message with your email and I can get in touch?
Thank you!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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What is the actual date of the Notice of Rejection? I cannot work out if their dates are correct without this. And when did you receive it?
The rejection letter is dated 10/04/2025
Can you help me understand where you're going with this please? It sounds like you may be looking for a reason why the rejection is invalid (e.g. given the dates if they responded late), but you think that there's no other reason to appeal their decision, correct?
@ugo
1. 10th April? Please confirm.
The amount outstanding on the PCN is £65.00, and will increase to £130.00 on Fri, 25 Apr 2025. However, this PCN currently has an offer, meaning you can pay at a reduced rate of £65.00. This offer expires on Tue, 22 Apr 2025. Please pay £65.00 now.
You have already made representations for this PCN and we replied on Thu, 3 Apr 2025. You cannot make representations twice.
2. They should not be requesting £65 before you have appealed to the Tribunal. This is opportunistic and prejudicial.
3. This is total bolleaux and I say Tribunal time.
More than happy to represent f.o.c.
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What is the actual date of the Notice of Rejection? I cannot work out if their dates are correct without this. And when did you receive it?
The rejection letter is dated 10/04/2025
Can you help me understand where you're going with this please? It sounds like you may be looking for a reason why the rejection is invalid (e.g. given the dates if they responded late), but you think that there's no other reason to appeal their decision, correct?
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What is the actual date of the Notice of Rejection? I cannot work out if their dates are correct without this. And when did you receive it?
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@ugo What is the actual date of the PCN?
Penalty Charge Notice No. QZ18620254
Date of this notice: 24/03/2025
Date of Contravention: 17/03/2025
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@ugo What is the actual date of the PCN?
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So why did you push the bike through the restriction. Apart from to get to the other side.
Reasons
- Needed to get to the other side in a quick way, without wasting time and polluting more. The place I needed to get to was just behind the gate. To do 15 meters and get on the other side, to this bakery, I could either spend 15 mins in traffic, or push the bike for 30 seconds and park it behind the gate. See map:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/QmJPSGc9jm2TatYp9
- I was low on fuel, and I couldn't afford driving more
If the bakery was just the other side of the restriction couldn't you have just parked your bike, walked to the bakery and returned?
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I'll get back later tonight
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So why did you push the bike through the restriction. Apart from to get to the other side.
Reasons
- Needed to get to the other side in a quick way, without wasting time and polluting more. The place I needed to get to was just behind the gate. To do 15 meters and get on the other side, to this bakery, I could either spend 15 mins in traffic, or push the bike for 30 seconds and park it behind the gate. See map:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/QmJPSGc9jm2TatYp9
- I was low on fuel, and I couldn't afford driving more
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@ugo Please show the PCN. It really is very important to do so as we often find errors!
I had to scan this as it's a letter - can you not see the PCN with the data I showed you? It should be online at https://parkingdisputes.hackney.gov.uk/
In any case, attached are the scans! thanks
And their response to my challenge:
VEHICLE REGISTRATION: BV17YYE
LOCATION OF CONTRAVENTION: DATE OF CONTRAVENTION: TIME OF CONTRAVENTION: 12:12
NATURE OF CONTRAVENTION: Richmond Road junction of Eleanor Road
17 March 2025
52 - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
Thank you for writing to us.
We have carefully considered what you have stated but we have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice.
We sent you a Penalty Charge Notice because our CCTV camera evidence shows the vehicle going where motor
vehicles are not allowed. The sign is round, white and has a red border. It pictures a motorcycle and a car in black.
Motor Vehicle Restriction Sign 619 - Conforming to TSRGD schedule 3, part 2.
Circular road signs: Circular signs give orders - they must be followed to stay within the law. Circles with a red border
tell you what you must not do (e.g. take a U-turn).
Richmond Road junction of Eleanor Road is currently closed to through traffic as part of the Low Traffic Neighbourhood
Scheme. The scheme is designed to create cleaner and quieter streets, support people to walk, shop and cycle to
rebuild a greener Hackney, as well as to improve road safety for pedestrians, and cyclists and reduce rat running and
traffic congestion.
The signs when approaching the Motor Vehicle Restriction state “No Motor Vehicles except local buses and permit
holders HAC01"
. When checking our records, the vehicle does not hold a valid HAC01 permit, therefore, the vehicle is
not permitted to pass through the signed restriction.
It is unfortunate that you were unfamiliar with the rules that were in force. However, it is still up to drivers to be aware of
signs, road markings and obey them.
The Council is committed to making Hackney’s roads safer and more accessible for everyone living, working and
visiting the Borough. Encouraging the use of more sustainable modes of transport such as walking and cycling to school
is one of the Council’s key transport priorities.
Hackney has an extensive network of roadways and you would have needed to find an alternative unrestricted route to
your destination. Please note that areas on either side of the restriction are still accessible by vehicle. Vehicles are
simply not permitted to pass through the signed restriction.
We noted your comments in relation to the images and the CCTV footage of the vehicle being pushed through the
restriction. However, propelling a vehicle, by any means (that includes pushing a vehicle), would be seen as non-
compliance. The vehicle was being propelled at the time it was seen in contravention.
Therefore, we are satisfied that the contravention had occurred as it is the responsibility of the motorist to check the
sign(s) to ensure they comply with the restrictions in place.
The PCN remains enforced however, we have extended the discount period for a further 14 days, giving you the
opportunity to pay the discounted amount, which will be accepted as full and final payment for this PCN.
You have these choices:
You can pay the discount charge of £65.00. You have 14 days from the date of this letter being served (delivered)
to do this.
You can pay £130.00 if you miss the discount period. You have 28 days from the date of this letter being served
(delivered) to do this.
If you wish to appeal, please read the guidance notes attached to the appeal form enclosed with this letter. You
can make your appeal online at the following address www.londontribunals.gov.uk. Please ensure that you quote
the unique appeal verification code stated on this Notice of Rejection and follow the online instructions on how to
complete your appeal. Alternatively, you can complete the Appeal Form enclosed with this letter (please read the
guidance notes before completing it) and send your appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators (ETA) at
the address stated on the form. Please do not send the appeal form to us. For any enquiries about your appeal,
please visit the London Tribunals website at www.londontribunals.gov.uk. The adjudicator will consider your
appeal and make a final decision. Please note that an adjudicator can not allow an appeal on the basis of
mitigating circumstances but may refer the case back to the authority for further consideration. An adjudicator can
not normally award costs but may do so if he considers that either party has acted frivolously, vexatiously or wholly
unreasonably. The directions of an Adjudicator must be complied with forthwith.
If you do nothing
If, after 28 days, you have taken no action, we may send you a Charge Certificate increasing the charge from £130.00 to
£195.00. You will then have 14 days to pay the increased charge. If, after the 14 days, you have not paid the increased
charge, we may apply to the County Court to recover the money - plus court costs - from you.
How to pay
Online (PCNs starting with QZ) go to www.hackney.gov.uk/parking-fines by following the payment links.
By phone (PCNs starting with QZ) 020 8629 1232 (24 hours) using a Visa, MasterCard, Maestro or Visa Electron
card.
By post Please make your cheque or postal order payable to 'London Borough of Hackney'
, write your PCN
number (see above) on the back, then send it to: Representations and Appeals, PO box 76121, London, E5 5FG.
Please do not send cash through the post.
Yours sincerely
A Henry
Parking Services
[attachment deleted by admin]
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So why did you push the bike through the restriction. Apart from to get to the other side.
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The crux: you thought you were being deviously clever, but you weren't.
So, you're on a loser with a defence against the contravention - unless miraculously there's a flaw in their traffic order - so give the forum what's been requested e.g. PCN, your representations etc.
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@ugo Please show the PCN. It really is very important to do so as we often find errors!
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Ticket Reference QZ18620254
Your PCN is at discount stage. PCN process information
Vehicle Registration NumberBV17YYE
ColourBLUE
MakePIAGGIO
Contravention52 - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle
LocationRichmond Road junction of Eleanor Road
First seen atMon, 17 Mar 2025 12:12
Issued atMon, 17 Mar 2025 12:12
Served byPost
The amount outstanding on the PCN is £65.00, and will increase to £130.00 on Fri, 25 Apr 2025. However, this PCN currently has an offer, meaning you can pay at a reduced rate of £65.00. This offer expires on Tue, 22 Apr 2025. Please pay £65.00 now.
You have already made representations for this PCN and we replied on Thu, 3 Apr 2025. You cannot make representations twice
My representation
At the time I am supposed to have been in contravention, the restriction did not apply
Further explanation :
If you look carefully at the imagery and video, I was not driving the bike but pushing it with the engine off. I was not
driving but moving the bike through the gated area without the engine being used.
Yours faithfully
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Representations.
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PS - unrelated. I signed the petition in your signature! Sadly not many more signers yet
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Unfortunately that is the case law. However , let's see the PCN and VRM in case there are issues with those and their website. Plus your reps. please, and the NOR.
I'm new to this :) can you elaborate please? Do you want me to share the PCN here? I don't understand what you mean by reps.
Thank you!
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Unfortunately that is the case law. However , let's see the PCN and VRM in case there are issues with those and their website. Plus your reps. please, and the NOR.
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Hey all,
I got fined in Hackney for entering an LTN zone on Richmond Road with my motorcycle. But here's the thing — my engine was off and I was physically pushing the bike, not riding it.
I challenged it, but Hackney rejected my appeal saying:
“Propelling a vehicle, by any means (that includes pushing a vehicle), would be seen as non-compliance. The vehicle was being propelled at the time it was seen in contravention."
Has anyone else experienced this? I genuinely thought pushing it would be fine, like walking a bike through. Worth appealing to London Tribunals or am I wasting my time?
Cheers for any advice!
More details with their response below:
Thank you for writing to us.
We have carefully considered what you have stated but we have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice.
We sent you a Penalty Charge Notice because our CCTV camera evidence shows the vehicle going where motor
vehicles are not allowed. The sign is round, white and has a red border. It pictures a motorcycle and a car in black.
Motor Vehicle Restriction Sign 619 - Conforming to TSRGD schedule 3, part 2.
Circular road signs: Circular signs give orders - they must be followed to stay within the law. Circles with a red border
tell you what you must not do (e.g. take a U-turn).
Richmond Road junction of Eleanor Road is currently closed to through traffic as part of the Low Traffic Neighbourhood
Scheme. The scheme is designed to create cleaner and quieter streets, support people to walk, shop and cycle to
rebuild a greener Hackney, as well as to improve road safety for pedestrians, and cyclists and reduce rat running and
traffic congestion.
The signs when approaching the Motor Vehicle Restriction state “No Motor Vehicles except local buses and permit
holders HAC01". When checking our records, the vehicle does not hold a valid HAC01 permit, therefore, the vehicle is
not permitted to pass through the signed restriction.
It is unfortunate that you were unfamiliar with the rules that were in force. However, it is still up to drivers to be aware of
10/04/2025 90D512
signs, road markings and obey them.
The Council is committed to making Hackney’s roads safer and more accessible for everyone living, working and
visiting the Borough. Encouraging the use of more sustainable modes of transport such as walking and cycling to school
is one of the Council’s key transport priorities.
Hackney has an extensive network of roadways and you would have needed to find an alternative unrestricted route to
your destination. Please note that areas on either side of the restriction are still accessible by vehicle. Vehicles are
simply not permitted to pass through the signed restriction.
We noted your comments in relation to the images and the CCTV footage of the vehicle being pushed through the
restriction. However, propelling a vehicle, by any means (that includes pushing a vehicle), would be seen as non-
compliance. The vehicle was being propelled at the time it was seen in contravention.
Therefore, we are satisfied that the contravention had occurred as it is the responsibility of the motorist to check the
sign(s) to ensure they comply with the restrictions in place.
The PCN remains enforced however, we have extended the discount period for a further 14 days, giving you the
opportunity to pay the discounted amount, which will be accepted as full and final payment for this PCN.