Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: andyc on April 09, 2025, 06:35:53 pm
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I would just like to thank everyone for their input to this, specifically the wording from HC Anderson. I've just received notification that they have cancelled the PCN on the basis of CEO Error.
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PCN ****
On ** I parked my car outside no.*** ***** which, as can be seen in the CEO's photos a designated parking place reserved to Resident Permit Holders. Within this parking place is a dropped footway serving no. *****. A PCN was issued for the contravention of parking on a carriageway adjacent to a dropped footway.
This is a statutory prohibition, see s86 Traffic Management Act 2004:https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86
I refer the authority to sections 86(2) - 86(6) above which set out five exceptions to the contravention. If any of these applies then the contravention of parking adjacent to a dropped footway has not occurred and no penalty may be demanded. In particular, I refer you to s86(2) which sets out the first, arguably primary, exception which is as follows:
[This is subject to the following exceptions].
(2)The first exception is where the vehicle is parked wholly within a designated parking place or any other part of the carriageway where parking is specifically authorised.
A “designated parking place” means a parking place designated by order under section 6, 9, 32(1)(b) or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27).
That the council has chosen to designate a length of road which includes access to residential properties is a matter for them and is arguably an error which they might wish to review. But this cannot affect the proper application of the law which is unambiguous in this regard i.e. where a vehicle is parked within a designated parking place then in respect of any length of dropped footway within that parking place the prohibition specified in s86 cannot occur.
The PCN must be cancelled.
However, if the authority are not minded to do so at this point then they must set out their reasoning with legal authorities in the same detail as these representations. Simply stating that you do not agree when the law and evidence support the representations would not suffice.
Leave the PCN wording until later, if necessary.
I cannot see anything to be gained by submitted skeleton reps. You need to put your case and require them, should they reject, to present similarly detailed reasons.
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An informal challenge is first - I can draft a simple one for you as there isn't much to say.
But who is the registered keeper of the van?
My business is the registered keeper, and I'm the sole director. I would very much appreciate your draft.
For informal challenges against a PCN, there are no fixed periods for a reply, unlike those for replying to reps against a Notice to Owner, which is 56 days in the Traffic Management Act 2004.
So it is within Haverings interest not to reply within the timeframe to get the higher rate?
As a layman, this forces individuals to just to pay the fine (which may be unjust) for fear of paying the full rate, which has recently been increased.
It is in the interests of the authority and the vehicle owner to resolve any dispute at the earliest possible stage.
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The Secretary of State suggests that authorities should respond within 14 days.[to challenges].
Very interesting, and I really appreciate your input. Would the suggestion by the secretary of state help? Havering will just claim workload?
Why are Havering allowed to remove this discount, when it has been standard across all boroughs for years?
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As an unqualified statement it is unlawful IMO.
It is only a correct statement if qualified with words to the effect that if the council reject informal reps beyond the 14-day period then what at this point would be a discretionary penalty charge would not be offered.
Which must, of course, be seen in the context of the Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance which states:
It is in the interests of the authority and the vehicle owner to resolve any dispute at the earliest possible stage.
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The Secretary of State suggests that authorities should respond within 14 days.[to challenges].
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Are the council obliged to respond in a certain timeframe? If I appeal and they respond in 7 days, am I still entitled to the discount as thats within 14?
For informal challenges against a PCN, there are no fixed periods for a reply, unlike those for replying to reps against a Notice to Owner, which is 56 days in the Traffic Management Act 2004. However, if you submit representations and receive a reply within the 14 day discount period, the discount is still valid and if Havering refuse to accept it, they are acting unlawfully. Nottingham lost a case on this very subject some years ago. An informal challenge is just that, informal, so cannot override the regulations that allow 14 days for payment of the discounted amount.
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An informal challenge is first - I can draft a simple one for you as there isn't much to say.
But who is the registered keeper of the van?
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2)The first exception[to the prohibition] is where the vehicle is parked wholly within a designated parking place or any other part of the carriageway where parking is specifically authorised.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86
Your defence is clear IMO.
When you make reps you must state that if the authority reject them they must state why the exception does not apply as the objective evidence provided by the council, namely photos of Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (Schedule 4) traffic sign and markings, shows that the exception applies.
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My back wheels were on the immediate edge of the bay outside 172.
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They are not offering the discount in any time after a challenge.
But you may have a winner as a parking place overrules a dropped footway.
Where exactly were you - you can see the bays on Havering's traffic order map.
(https://i.imgur.com/16Jv6MJ.png)
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Thanks for looking in to this.
Yes I was parked within a residents bay outside of the enforcement times.
Are the council obliged to respond in a certain timeframe? If I appeal and they respond in 7 days, am I still entitled to the discount as thats within 14?
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Were you in a parking bay?
Havering has changed policy and is not reoffering the discount on rejection.
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Good evening,
I have today received a PCN for parking slightly across a dropped kerb. Granted I did it, but I would like to question the validity of the PCN wording. "Any challenge made is against the full charge and the 14 day discount will not be offered". Previously, the discount clock stopped when an informal challenge was made. If upheld, I was still able to pay the reduced rate.
The other query is that other vehicles did exactly the same thing and were not ticketed.
PCN and my images:
https://imgur.com/a/857Ta07
GSV:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1LYkG9guEF4S2FNFA
The council images aren't online yet.
Do I have any grounds for appeal, or should I just pay it at the reduced rate?
Thanks.