Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Bullit70 on April 08, 2025, 06:23:59 pm
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It's a woeful rejection IMO and I'd go on with it. Did you send all the points I made?
Councils are having glitches with the recent penalty increases but as it seems you can pay less than the PCN I don't think this is grounds alone for continuing.
(https://i.ibb.co/B5FvQp8p/Screenshot-2025-04-18-at-20-58-17.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/rqNJycK/Screenshot-2025-04-18-at-20-58-54.png)
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Hello
Unfortunately the appeal was rejected, standard template. >:( :'( See attached.
Interestingly the amount payable (discounted if paid within 14 days) when I searched for the PCN details online is £65 instead of £80 (as stated on the response).
LBs and City have increased the charges by £30 on the 07/04 (date of my PCN), somehow now I am getting the old rate.
Small victory I guess.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I wouldn't give up at the first hurdle. Try this:
The contravention of 'Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space- permit holder only electric vehicle charging bay' alleged on the PCN did not occur for these reasons.
1. The permit bay is not an electric vehicle charging bay.
2. The contravention code is 21a - a is a suffix that means temporary traffic order. I could not see any such order at the location.
3. My car was outside no 199 and at most trivially adjacent to no 197, which is the number specified on the suspension sign.
4. As a resident for x years I do keep a look out for suspension signs but I missed this one probably because it is half-buried in a hedge! I do feel you have a duty to keep parking signs free from vegetation.
I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation of this PCN.
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Thank you again.
I am reading HCA's reply and coming to the conclusion that I have little chance to successfully appeal this PCN, it seems that point 1 and 3 suggested by stamford are not applicable?
Interestingly, another driver was parked closer to the car at the other end (blue Ford) and didn't get a PCN.
Perhaps I have to admit defeat with this one..😔
What is irritating is that there is still no work being carried out anywhere near the suspension!
Thanks again for your input
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Thanks.
IMO,
The parking place is 2+ vehicles' long. Their plan splits this into 2 parts with the suspended area being the first. This starts o/s 197 and extends to 199. Your car straddles the limit of the suspended area and IMO your car was within the suspended area by more than a de minimis amount. And even if the narrative number, 197, was taken literally to the exclusion of the plan then your car was still within this area.
There is a single traffic sign and post within this 2+ cars' length parking place which IMO couldn't be missed if the driver had looked.
The 'EV' aspect of the contravention description is clearly wrong and should be advanced, but I'm not certain that this would be considered anything other that a slip by as adjudicator.
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The marked suspension is equidistant between 197 and 199 it seems.
The suspension sign with its wings stuffed into the hedge is amusing.
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I hope the link works, I ve uploaded the full PCN
Thank you both
(https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/70/8c/03/ME10ZB7Z_t.jpg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME10ZB7Z) (https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/9f/be/a1/ME10ZB80_t.jpg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME10ZB80) (https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/5f/d8/23/ME10ZB82_t.jpg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME10ZB82) (https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/42/f4/46/ME10ZB83_t.jpg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME10ZB83)
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The OP has blanked his VRM when I asked not to so I can't get the pics.
I would have thought the PCN falls on the contravention and weird suffix though.
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Could you get a better photo of the plan on the sign, I can't clearly see the extent of the suspended area and how this relates to the description: outside 197.
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Thanks again.
No definitely no EV, the suspensions (few on that road) are to carry out works on the pavement, replacing slabs.
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It's an informal challenge so no need to go into a deep dive.
One other thing - did you miss seeing the sign when you parked? I presume so and you can add that the sign wasn't seen when parking as it was attached to a parking sign half buried in vegetation. I would also include you are a resident and have a parking permit.
I would say:
The contravention of 'Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space- permit holder only electric vehicle charging bay'
alleged on the PCN did not occur for these reasons.
1. The permit bay is not an electric vehicle charging bay.
2. The contravention code is 21a - a is a suffix that means temporary traffic order. I could not see any such order at the location.
3. My car was outside no 199 and at most trivially adjacent to no 197, which is the extent of the suspended part of the bay.
I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation of this PCN.
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I'm not sure what to say about point 2 - someone else may chip but I think it's not a correct use of the regulations.
I also wondered if they are turning the bay into EV charging - I can see reference to Goldhurst Terrace in this but not at this location:
https://www.camden.gov.uk/documents/d/guest/introduction-of-electric-vehicle-recharging-point-parking-places-proposals-dated-27-february-2025
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Thanks for the update. With regards to me lodging an appeal, what information/ circumstances/legislation, do I need to include?
Kind Regards
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The PCN is ridiculous. The contravention did not occur - it isn't an EV bay and they can't qualify a bay suspension as a temporary traffic order (those are usually used to to turn bays/kerbsides etc into no waiting/loading restrictions).
By the way, Camden is one of only two councils (other is Kens&Chelsea) I know that offers an email alert for bay suspensions in a certain road - sign up here:
https://accountforms.camden.gov.uk/parking-bay-suspensions-search-and-alerts/
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Thanks Stamford!
See attached copy of the PCN left on the windscreen.
I parked the car the day before, Sunday morning 6/4/25. The notices (few on this road) have been put up about 2 weeks ago.
No EV just road works which of course they have not started yet!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Where is the PCN? Let's see it. What's this about an EV bay? The suffix a in 21a is temporary traffic order and IMO is invalid for a code 21.
No need to blank anything.
Good chance of being deemed not to be outside no 197 or trivially.
While the suspension sign is in the right place on the parking sign it needs to draw your attention.
But when did you park there.
(https://i.ibb.co/xqpWqqv7/Camden-PCN-Code-21a-edited.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/tMp2kbhT/Camden-PCN-Code-21a-edited-2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/XrCL4LF9/Camden-PCN-Code-21a-edited-3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/F4kd3h4Y/Camden-PCN-Code-21a-edited-4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/bDcxhfh/Camden-PCN-Code-21a-edited-5.jpg)
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Hello
I received the following PCN from Camden Council:
PCN Details:
Date 07/04/2025 08:41
PCN Number CU70441xxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxx (Dark blue DS car)
Street Goldhurst Terrace
Contravention Type: permit holders only
Contravention Code 21a
Contravention: Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space- permit holder only electric vehicle charging bay.
Can the PCN be appealed? I do have a valid permit to park in the zone. My argument is that there was unclear signage and the car was parked outside 199 (well the majority).
Please see photos taken by the traffic warden and links attached:
As seen from Google Map pic from the link in the attachment (197 Goldhurst Terrace - Google Maps) and notes, the parking bay starts on the right of 197, near the end of the house and up to 199. There is a noticeable gap from the end of the bay to my car.
Also the notice was placed where in fact the suspension was not applicable (between 199-201).
Your advice on whether I should appeal and on what grounds would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!!
Bullit70
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