Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: benlandau on April 07, 2025, 04:36:28 pm
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Cheers pal
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As far as I am aware, APCOA have never taken anyone to court over a single PCN. If they ever do, you will be the first and it can easily be dealt with.
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Thanks - much appreciated. And again, just to confirm that all that applies even when they know who the driver was?
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You can ignore the useless debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, ever enter into communication with a powerless debt collector. Shred their letters and use it a hamster bedding for all anyone cares.
If you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC), which is unlikely, then come back as we can deal with it.
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Hi all. So I've now received a first letter from debt recovery plus. I've seen in a few threads (including this one), that apcoa don't do court. But is a letter of claim more likely in a case where they know for a fact who the driver was?
Thanks all
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So the question is, will this simply blow over?
Based on prior experience, yes. Historically, we've never seen a single APCOA case go to court.
If it doesn't, how will I know when I need to take the letters etc seriously?
In the unlikely event APCOA suddenly change their approach, they (or a legal firm acting on their behalf), would send you a 'Letter of Claim'.
Any letters from debt collectors can be safely ignored.
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I'm aware. I only found about this forum, and other more effective appeal templates, after I'd already submitted that one.
So the question is, will this simply blow over? If it doesn't, how will I know when I need to take the letters etc seriously?
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The link you provided does not take you to any Google Drive link, at least for me. It just takes me to an image that I hosted to you:
(https://i.imgur.com/FoIHS8K.png)
Your POPLA appeal is rubbish! You admitted to being the driver in your initial appeal so why do you think you can invoke PoFA to absolve you of any liability as the Keeper? The driver is ALWAYS liable. You shot yourself in the foot with your initial appeal.
All you can do now is wait for the POPLA rejection and the weather the useless debt recovery letters that will come your way and wait for it to blow over.
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Thanks. Here's what I initially appealed to Apcoa with:
"Since the fire in the multistorey carpark a couple of years ago, the layout in London Luton Airport is continually changing. The drop off/pick up area has moved and the signage changes every time. It is not helped by the fact that previously there was a barrier to exit and payment was taken immediately. It is immensely confusing. When I saw the area marked out, I had understood that the first five minutes of parking time is not charged, so being that I was in for less than two minutes, I had understood that I did not need to pay. If that was incorrect then I'd of course be prepared to pay the original charge, but I'd appreciate if you could cancel the PCN."
They of course rejected and provided multiple images of the signage.
I then took sent the following to Popla:
“I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on
land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot
use the PoFA provisions because Luton Airport is not 'relevant land'. If Luton Airport wanted to hold owners
or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely.
However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner
and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as
opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and NCP has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only. The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver,
nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the
PCN.”
Their rejection to this can be seen in the doc uploaded to the Google Drive link above.
Hope that helps.
Any chance of a rebuttal?
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APCOA don’t “do” court and the decision of POPLA is not binding on you if it doesn’t find in your favour, if so your next step is to do nothing and ignore everything you receive from debt collectors. Come back if you get a formal Letter of Claim, but we don’t see APCOA doing this.
But whilst this is still “live” with POPLA hopefully we can make something for your rebuttal.
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I have no idea now. Show is, chronologically, what you have submitted as your initial appeal to APCOA and what your secondary appeal to POPLA. Also, show us the operators evidence you have received.
You can host that on DropBox or Google Drive and then we can at least know where you are and what you can rebut. You have 7 days from the date you received the operators evidence pack to respond.
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Just for avoidance of doubt, here's what's happened so far:
- The screenshot in that folder is what I originally appealed to APCOA (that was before I knew about the standard appeal template for this car park)
- They refused the original appeal
- I came to this forum to ask for advice
- I was advised here not to pay the PCN (then £25, now £95) - and instead appeal via POPLA with the standard template (I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable...)
- I pointed out that the content of the template was at odds with my first appeal
- I was advised here that even though the appeal would probably be unsuccessful, i needn't worry as the worst that will happen is a bunch of letters until APCOA give up
Do I continue with this course?
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Yes, we got our wires crossed because the original poster didn’t post any documents sent/received and I wrongly concluded was talking about the first appeal to APCOA. We are where we are.
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What is that you have linked to? Are you saying that is the sum total of your POPLA appeal? You need to host the evidence that APCOA have provided to POPLA!
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See here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1myXvAWyyjrmPkHo_-cleFxfcZzBsjl86/view?usp=drive_link
As far as I understood from previous poster jfollows; the appeal probably wouldn't be successful in any event
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what EXACTLY did you put in your POPLA appeal and you can host the operators evidence on DropBox or Google Drive and then we could possibly assist you more.
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Hi there. Apcoa have now responded to the appeal to Popla. As expected, they've pointed out that the subsequent claim conflicts my initial claim. Popla now giving me the opportunity to respond to Apcoa evidence. Is there anything I should enter?
Cheers
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Okey dokey - appeal sent. Cheers!
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Appeal, as per the post I linked (but modify given you have identified the driver of course), expect to have your appeal rejected, and then use the letters from debt collectors for your cat or similar. APCOA don’t do court, but if they did you have a defence up your sleeve anyway. Pay nothing. Your choice.
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Thanks for this. If I'm unsuccessful with a further appeal it goes up to £95. Are you saying that if I appeal, even if unsuccessful, it will never go further? The PCN is £25 (the initial charge was £5) so I'm somewhat minded to pay it (much as I hate paying these companies). Cheers for your help!
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Oh dear... has the driver definitely been identified? Don't worry too much but had you used the correct appeal and only as the Keeper, this would have been over.
APCOA are not litigious and you are unlikely to be the first. However, you are now going to have to go through the whole process of appealing to POPLA who are likely to reject any appeal if you've been outed as the driver which then leads on to a period of multiple debt recovery letters which you can safely ignore.
Eventually, they will stop and that will be the end of it. If only'd discovered this for before you appealed.
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See https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/luton-express-drop-off-apcoa-no-pcn-sent-instead-debit-recovery-notice/msg62879/#msg62879
Is that similar?
APCOA don’t seem to do court.
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A PCN was received for using the pick up/drop off area without paying the £5 fee.
The keeper of the car challenged on the basis that the configuration of the parking facilities in LLA keeps on changing since the fire a couple of years back - navigating to the correct parking area is a hassle as is! The keeper challenged and advised APCOA that they had understood that up to 5 minutes was free. They were there for less than two minutes so didn't think the fee was payable.
Challenge was refused.
In challenging the keeper may have implied they were the driver at the time.
Is there anything that can be done at this time?
Thanks for your help!