Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: pogg000 on April 07, 2025, 10:02:19 am
-
You can safely ignore any debt recovery letters. They are powerless to do anything except persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.
You never answered questions about this:
Yes it was sent to me.
I paid a reduced fine earlier so i guess they used the details from that to send directly to me.
What EXACTLY do you mean you "paid a reduced fine"?????
This is rapidly becoming FUBAR and we have no clear idea of what you have received or responded to or with.
It sounds as though you did receive an NtH in your name and you paid it at the mugs discount rate. If that is the case, then you threw away good money and are now in a limbo of APCOAs procedural screw ups.
I suggest that if you did pay the charge after receiving an NtH in your name, you complain to APCOA about it and tell them to call off their powerless dogs.
Even if you do nothing about it from here on in, nothing is going to happen and eventually the debt collectors will give up and that will be the end of it.
-
Hi
I emailed them my appeal and received no response, but have now received a letter from dept recovery plus!
https://imgur.com/a/hJMZwDU
Do I still ignore this as i have not received notice to hirer?
Thanks for your time.
-
...and?
They have 28 days to respond
Thanks
-
...and?
They have 28 days to respond
-
I emailed as above and wrote my appeal in email.
No response as of yet
-
Nobody ever has to pay anything, so long as they appeal as keeper and don't identify the driver
-
Hi
This is not correct any more at Stansted, the barriers have been removed for express drop off and pick up. Perhaps since the start of this year
All Stansted parking is barrier controlled.
It seems that the op has his vehicle registered to an account with Stansted Airport parking which allows entry/exit to the car parks and payment to be made later via his account. On this occasion he hasn't paid in time.
As a regular visitor to the airport it may have been wiser to have set up the account with auto-pay.
Edit: to clarify
Thank you for that update. It went barrierless on 23rd January and is now pay online.
Rather fortunately, as a regular visitor I have already opened an account with Stanstead (and Luton) although I wasn't aware that it had gone barrierless since my last visit in December. My next trip should have been last week but another relative made the drop off
No problem. For a while they were offering those that forgot to pay on the first occasion a chance to pay £7 after receiving a Parking Charge letter. Now this has gone up to £25 if you pay within 14 days. A shame as I think if you go over the Dartford Bridge the first time without paying you get the chance to pay later....
-
Hi
This is not correct any more at Stansted, the barriers have been removed for express drop off and pick up. Perhaps since the start of this year
All Stansted parking is barrier controlled.
It seems that the op has his vehicle registered to an account with Stansted Airport parking which allows entry/exit to the car parks and payment to be made later via his account. On this occasion he hasn't paid in time.
As a regular visitor to the airport it may have been wiser to have set up the account with auto-pay.
Edit: to clarify
Thank you for that update. It went barrierless on 23rd January and is now pay online.
Rather fortunately, as a regular visitor I have already opened an account with Stanstead (and Luton) although I wasn't aware that it had gone barrierless since my last visit in December. My next trip should have been last week but another relative made the drop off
-
Hi
This is not correct any more at Stansted, the barriers have been removed for express drop off and pick up. Perhaps since the start of this year
All Stansted parking is barrier controlled.
It seems that the op has his vehicle registered to an account with Stansted Airport parking which allows entry/exit to the car parks and payment to be made later via his account. On this occasion he hasn't paid in time.
As a regular visitor to the airport it may have been wiser to have set up the account with auto-pay.
Edit: to clarify
-
You’re not being stupid. There are serious problems with the web pages for APCOA’s drop off PCNs at Stansted and Luton. If you can’t make it work, send a complaint and also the wording of your appeal to UK_Customer_Complaints@apcoa.com
-
Try different combinations of the letters.
-
Don't know weather its me being stupid but......
I have tried to log in to APOCA website and its asks for pcn number with only 2 letters, but my pcn has 3 letters???
Am i being stupid here??
-
This is dispute resolution, not Rumple of the Bailey! There is nothing criminal about a civil contractual dispute.
However, in civil cases like parking disputes, courts can draw adverse inferences from a party’s behaviour or omissions, but it’s not quite the same as the criminal caution about harming your defence by staying silent. There’s no formal warning like that in civil law, but if you fail to raise a key point early on—especially if it’s something you later try to rely on—the judge may give it less weight or even infer that it wasn’t a genuine issue at the time.
That said, your appeal clearly sets out your position: you are the registered keeper, not the driver, and you’ve explained why the operator cannot rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) to hold you liable. You’ve also made it clear that the location is not relevant land and that the parking charge is based on alleged contractual terms, not statutory bylaws. This kind of direct and early explanation significantly reduces the risk of any adverse inference being drawn later.
In short, as long as your key arguments have been made early—like you’ve done here—there’s no real concern about a court making a negative inference due to silence or delay.
-
@pog000, Unless you start to use the required terminology, we are not going to be able to provide much more advice.
So, have you received a Notice to Hirer (NtH) addressed to you. in your own name or are you saying that what you have received is a Notice to Keeper (NtK) addressed to you in your own name?
You are not and never have been the Registered Keeper of the vehicle! You are only the Hirer!
-
OP, Nobody can make sense of what you’re writing. Have you received a notice to hirer in your own name directly from APCOA or a copy of a notice to keeper addressed to the hire company? You should not have received a notice to keeper in your own name.
Either way. APCOA will cancel it provided you do not say who was driving. Technically you should wait till you receive the notice to hirer in your own name but experience teaches that you can appeal prematurely and APCOA will cancel.
Try the following.
“I appeal as hirer. I’m not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so.
You cannot transfer the driver’s liability (if any) to me because there is no hirer liability at Stansted Airport which is not ‘relevant land’ as defined in the law known as POFA and in any event your notice does not conform to the wording requirements in POFA”
-
Just to conform that the hire company transfered liability to me, and i received notice to keeper to my address. Sorry for my wrong statement above.
So wrong paper work sent to me? So I just ignore all for now?
-
Well, until the OP clarifies in plain English that they have received a notice in their name and not a copy of the NtK that was sent to the hire company, I guess we'll never know.
OP, unless you a very clear about what you have received and to whom it is addressed, you're on your own. If you follow the advice and don't screw it up, you won't be paying a penny.
-
It is confusing, isn't it!
The OP posted:
It has been sent to the hire company and then it was passed into my name.
and,
I paid a reduced fine earlier so i guess they used the details from that to send directly to me.
-
OP, you cannot respond to a Notice to Keeper (NtK) as it is not in your name. So what if the hire company sent you a copy of the NtK? What the hire company should have done in order to deflect any comeback to them is transfer liability to you, the Hirer.
Once they have transferred liability, it is then up to APCOA to issue and send a Notice to Hirer (NtH) in your name. Together with that NtH, APCOA are supposed to also include copies of the hire agreement and other documents as listed in PoFA paragraph 13(2) (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted).
Until that happens, you cannot appeal as it is not your name that is on the NtK you have received because you are NOT the registered keeper!!!
So, unless you have received a notice in your name, that is an NtH, there is nothing you can or should do.
When you do receive one, then you can appeal with the suggested wording I gave you yesterday.
Either way, even if you did nothing, once the liability has been transferred to the Hirer, all you would need to do is ignore all the useless debt recovery letters and it will eventually go away. APCOA are not litigious.
-
All Stansted parking is barrier controlled.
It seems that the op has his vehicle registered to an account with Stansted Airport parking which allows entry/exit to the car parks and payment to be made later via his account. On this occasion he hasn't paid in time.
As a regular visitor to the airport it may have been wiser to have set up the account with auto-pay.
Edit: to clarify
-
What does "passed into my name" mean? Whose name and address is on the letter you have received?
-
You didn’t answer my question - was the notice to the keeper addressed to you, someone who is not the registered keeper? Or was it forwarded to you by the registered keeper.
In the former case, APCOA can’t decide that you’re the registered keeper for some reason, they have to apply to the DVLA for details of the registered keeper.
In the latter case, the notice is not addressed to you and you need to wait for a Notice to Hirer.
In either case, APCOA can’t hold you liable because the land is covered by byelaws for the reasons already posted.
It has been sent to the hire company and then it was passed into my name. So i just appeal as above advise?
-
You didn’t answer my question - was the notice to the keeper addressed to you, someone who is not the registered keeper? Or was it forwarded to you by the registered keeper.
In the former case, APCOA can’t decide that you’re the registered keeper for some reason, they have to apply to the DVLA for details of the registered keeper.
In the latter case, the notice is not addressed to you and you need to wait for a Notice to Hirer.
In either case, APCOA can’t hold you liable because the land is covered by byelaws for the reasons already posted.
-
Yes it was sent to me.
I paid a reduced fine earlier so i guess they used the details from that to send directly to me.
-
Why, then, did you post a notice to the registered keeper? Was it addressed to you? You said “I received this PCN”.
-
I am not the regestered keeper. I hire the car does this still stand as per your advice?
-
Easy one to deal with… as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.
The location (Heathrow Airport) is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.
Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:
I am the registered keeper. NCP cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Heathrow Airport is not 'relevant land'.
If Heathrow Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.
The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
-
See https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/re-heathrow-drop-off-charge-apcoa/msg50605/?topicseen#msg50605
Obviously substitute Stansted for Heathrow.
Don’t identify the driver. Modify your post accordingly. Read https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
Even if it were to be valid it’s woefully late and couldn’t hold the keeper liable.
-
Hi, sorry for bombarding your helpful site today.
I received this pcn from apocoa
I work as an uber driver and obviously forgot to pay this visit.
I have paid many since this visit so it is not that i was trying to avoid payment.
What would be my best attack at this one??
https://imgur.com/a/4pMLAYJ