Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Redspark on April 05, 2025, 08:15:33 pm
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https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/ has instructions on how to post attachments.
Per Reply #2.
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Here's the significant parts of the letter with my reg removed.
I can't seem to see the attach image link anymore
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It seems to have been removed.
It was sent by Elms legal
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Where is this LoC? Who issued it? Elms or DCB Legal?
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So what should my reply to this letter include then ? Something similar to the great template given by b789 ?
Thanks
Dave
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Hi
So would this be the letter of claim ?
Although they say it's "letter before claim". Any action I need to take or ignore it ?
Same thing, also called “letter before action”.
Do not ignore, you will need to reply in due course.
Wait for advice per Reply #15 above.
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Hi
So would this be the letter of claim ?
Although they say it's "letter before claim". Any action I need to take or ignore it ?
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Hi
Here is rear of letter.
Dave
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I think the back was just "ways to pay" etc. I remember skipping it.
I'll recheck though.
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Could you please show us the rest of the letter (assuming there's something on the back of the page you have showed us already)?
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Received a letter on aug 20
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It is too late to do anything now. You wasted your money on a useless recorded delivery which, unless you have a signature showing that it was signed for, then all you have is proof it was never delivered. Lear from this for any future requirement to send information to someone!
As for the PCN, you will now have to go through the process of weathering the useless debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.
Eventually, you will receive a Letter of Claim (LoC). When you do, come back and we will advise on how to respond.
In due course, a county court claim will be issued and we will provide a defence that can be used. The most likely outcome is that the claim will be struck out or discontinued. You can expect this conclude in about 9-12+ months.
Follow the advice, and you won't be paying a penny to the vexatious excrement that is known as VCS,
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31 march, no I don't have time. Well still haven't heard anything so fingers crossed.
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Ok. Hope I still have time to respond by email. It said one month from letter
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So, do you have a receipt of the appeal having been signed for? If not, all you have is proof that it was not delivered.
Consider the fact that email is free, instant and has proof of delivery built in.
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Usual advice is to send by 1st class mail and get a receipt from a post office, not by registered mail as they could refuse to receive it.
If appealing on their website keep screen shots or photo of the input details and watch for any drop down boxes trying to make you click driver.
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Erm I think I sent it by traditional mail by a method to record it's receipt.
I've not heard anything back since original letter.
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Did you email the appeal or did you use some other way to submit the appeal? Have you received a receipt acknowledging that your appeal was received?
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No I sent what you wrote as an appeal then nothing for some time then this.
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Did you not receive a response to your appeal?
You can safely ignore any debt recovery letters. DCBL and all debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.
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Just received this after I sent your reply word for word.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thankyou so much.
D
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This will be a protracted exercise but if you follow the advice you will not be paying a penny to the scammers at VCS. Why? Because what you have received is simply an invoice for an alleged breach of contract by the driver.
What contract? Well, there wasn't one because if you look at the signage at the airport, it is not contractual at all. I won't go into depth here but you can do your own research on what three elements are required to be able to form a contract that is entered into by conduct. Suffice it to ay that a prohibitive sign cannot form a contract because there is nothing on offer for consideration.
So, first thing is that there was no contract. VCS are not an authority that can issue fines or penalties. They are a verminous firm of ex-clampers running an unregulated private parking company and have zero authority.
Secondly, they can only hold the driver liable for any charge. They have absolutely no idea who the driver is. They are not allowed to assume or infer that the Keeper must be the driver, even though they have already done so in the Notice to Keeper (NtK). As the location is an airport, it is under statutory control (Byelwas) and therefore is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA 2012.
They cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown (to them) driver to you, the known Keeper. They will hug and puff and say they can but they can't. If this were to ever go as far as a claim in court (it won't), they would not have a leg to stand on.
So, this is how it will go if you follow the advice... You make an initial appeal to VCS which they will reject. You ignore the secondary appeal process with the IAS which is a kangaroo court and I refuse to waste any time and effort on appeals to a corrupt and incestuous firm. You will then receive a load of threatening debt recovery letters which you can safely ignore. They can only try and scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.
Eventually, they will threaten a claim in the county court which you will respond to and in due course the claim will either be struck out or in the very unlikely event it were to ever go all the way to a hearing, you win.
There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.
PoFA does not apply on non-relevant land, such as at an airport, which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.
For now, you can simply appeal, only as the Keeper, to VCS with the following:
I am the registered keeper. VCS cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, VCS will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Leeds/Brdford Airport (LBA) is not 'relevant land'.
If LBA wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because VCS is not the Airport owner and your 'charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for VCS's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and VCS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.
The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. VCS have no hope should you be so desperate as to initiate litigation, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
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I've read up on VCS but can you help me understand how I'll pay nothing ?
Any help much appreciated.
Dave
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Also read and act on https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/ and in particular how not to identify the driver in your posts.
We’d like to help you but you must help yourself first …..
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Put
VCS
into the search bar and read about how to handle these.
You won’t need to pay a penny but it will help you if you read up on how VCS “manages” airport land usually covered by byelaws.
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Hi
I went to pick my my wife up at Leeds Bradford airport. She said use free parking. Wasn't too sure how to get there so put satnav on. It told me to turn off the main rd into one of the many airport turn offs, great. Then I was supposed to take a sharp left into this rd but it was closed, under construction. Suddenly I was clueless what to do as it was one way and there were barriers into a differ6type of carpark ahead. I thought if I go in in probably going to have to pay to get out. So I stopped and tried to move over to left a bit to not obstruct cars.Eventually I spoke to one of the workmen who gave me directions. They were to go through carpark ahead. And yes I had to call the man on way out to say I've driven straight through the carpark. He begrudgingly let me out.
Then today I received this (attachment).
How shall I move forward with this ? Appeal ? Pay ?
Thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]