Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Grittery on April 04, 2025, 07:11:26 pm
-
I would like to sort this out before any Tribunal hearing. I will PM you my details to authorise me.
-
Mr Stanton Dunne is one of the adjudicators at London Tribunals.
-
Please read my reps. in the other case and the decision. It is confusing and also, by corollary, they have not stated that unless you make reps. 28 days beginning with the date of service, they can serve a charge certificate. Also, they have allowed before Tribunal another case for a person I was helping on exactly the same reps. made. So the onus is on them tom at fairly in your case. You may as well authorise me now. I can PM you my details.
Mr Stanton-Dunne agreed with me.
Thank you 🙏 I have looked at a lot of your responses to the same and can see that you have had cases adjourned due to this. Are these your reps?
I’m not sure who Mr Stanton Dunne is .. tbh feeling a bit out of my depth but (just looked up corollary meaning) and ‘forming a proposition that follows from one already proved.’ From which I understand that it has worked before so should work again?
Is the error something that can override the fact that I drove through a traffic restriction ? The video is very clear.
If so I’d very much like to authorise you (is this to do the challenge for me? ) but is there a cost ? If so it may not be worth your while, unfortunately I’m not in a position to pay any more than the £65 which is current fine?
Just to be clear too, I have not yet had any communication with Haringey about this PCN
Do you need my email or do you have access? I’d prefer not to post it publicly …
Thanks again
-
Please read my reps. in the other case and the decision. It is confusing and also, by corollary, they have not stated that unless you make reps. 28 days beginning with the date of service, they can serve a charge certificate. Also, they have allowed before Tribunal another case for a person I was helping on exactly the same reps. made. So the onus is on them tom at fairly in your case. You may as well authorise me now. I can PM you my details.
Mr Stanton-Dunne agreed with me.
-
Hi Hippocrates,
Sorry, I realised after I’d replied to you, that I was reading the wrong paragraph and that the next paragraph is the same on my PCN as the one you quote from.
Think I had assumed that Haringey would have corrected any erroneous text once it had come to light.
But, I also have to admit that I’m unclear what the error in that text is? I have read and re read.
I’m sure you’re sick of repeating yourself about this, but If you do think it’s worth me appealing , is there any chance of you spelling it out really simply for me so that I can then spell it out to Haringey in a convincing appeal?
No worries if not, I had resigned myself to paying fine but would definitely prefer not to have to. Thanks again for your time
-
How is he text different? I have an even more deft representations for you as they recently cancelled one with the same reps.
-
' Not really, because you turned right there, so didn't go down that street.'
I was puzzled at your 'turned right' so looked again at images ... and noticed there is a video .. of me slowly exiting Gorleston, between the two vans, and driving across junction to Falmer. so much clearer than the photos... oblivious to the road markings.. :(
https://haringey.tarantoportal.com/PCNs/PCN/GetPartialVideo?v=1490BD4466A3FBF19C1E4799E43DF398B28C213D1CA1802F6EF3591ACC418C79AACC2CAC7EA8571B1B110839DC75DFECC2FD467D90F9F1051D7F55DAD92F30EEEF1FEA988B059896C2B8AFB033626C4B02067FFE36AA3B99B178D2490E47F3C3374200C5DFCEDEA7F69B74A992E2B2900AED060F2F4193C06A81C732F9BD7A40A377CEA40E2203E00F2B39FCCDC08FEB341BB27ABF273B2DB7EEC467B3A52D22
-
Although .. having looked again at road layout and the PCN image of my vehicle, my view of the junction and the road markings would have been quiet impaired because there are two big vans parked at the top of Gorleston Road... worth a shot?
Not really, because you turned right there, so didn't go down that street.
-
Although .. having looked again at road layout and the PCN image of my vehicle, my view of the junction and the road markings would have been quite impaired because there are two big vans parked at the top of Gorleston Road... worth a shot?
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Thanks for all the help.
Hippocrates I was initially uncertain what you meant by 'Close the Book' but having checked the text on my PCN with the PCN your link and text is responding to, I can see they are different so I'm guessing Harringey have amended their error and I have no challenge?
and
Incandescent thanks for your time looking into it your Sat Nav induced PCN is spot on.
Unfortunately because the Street View images are all out of date it was confusing to figure out what I would have been driving into/through. But looking at the the PCN images of me driving through the junction and uing google Layers I can clearly see the same planters placed at the junction and arrows on the road indicating to turn left, there do not appear to be any eye level signs saying same, but the only way to really check is to return to scene of crime and to do that I would need to use Google Maps.. ...
So guess I'll have to bite the bullet, pay the fine and as be more vigilant, lesson learnt :'(
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Close the book:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/haringey-52(m)-pcn-nor-help-(downhills-park-rd-n17)/msg54378/#msg54378
-
If you approached on Gorleston Road, you would have made a right turn, which before the current restrictions, was, I think a No Rght Turn junction. Unfortunately GSV doesn't show the current situation on Gorleston Road at all, neither does Bing Streetview, but frankly, I don't see a winning argument on signage here, because the one view that we do have does show most of which is there at the moment and shows a y traffic coming out of Gorleston Road, must turn left.
Here's GSV Feb 2022 - a No Right Turn
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MKaBMEChfo5iyHKcA
and here's GSV Sept 2024, showing left-turn only.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GQxBJgY8ekpvTiV86
There may be a 'technical' offence based on council mismanagement of the enforcement process, so wait a bit, but don't miss the PCN deadline for payment or appeals. This is a classic case of a satnav-assisted PCN !
-
Thanks for swift response Incandescent, I think I was approaching that junction from Gorleston road but doubt that makes any difference, I know and have acknowledged that I was at fault to blindly follow Google.
The primary reason I was posting was that having seen the response by Hippocrates to the PCN from Billy Butcher, which is worded in the same way as mine, I was hoping that my PCN might also be eligible for the same argument .. which I’m not sure I understand.. but thought worth asking
I will hold on and see if any update from Hippocrates, but have my cheque book ready .
Am now thinking I might ask Google maps to pay fine (joke) I will try to contact them because..I’m pretty sure this junction is incorrectly mapped. When viewed on map the junction (with flower beds and markings is clear) but in Street View it is different.. which is possibly why so many of us have been led , like foolish Google sheep, down the wrong route. I do live in London and I am usually vigilant! Hard lesson but has been learnt.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Oh dear, how many times do we see the words "I was following (satnav/Google Maps) and saw no signs" !
Anyway GSV has a confusing set of views here, but this one of September 2024, (so I assume current),
approaching the junction on Cornwall Road towards Gorleston Road/Falmer Rd shows t he usual Flying Motorbike signs, plus somewhat confusingly, No Entry signs as well !
However, it seems that you actually passed two No Entry signs before you got to the junction: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jJVwEB7i4xXUP5Bx5
However, I may have your route wrong, so please tell us whether you drove north along Cornwall Road from St Ann's Road. There is a sign as you turn in : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/hFL8LTthiACnAWmD8
But if you're totally relying on Google I don't suppose you know anything about the street names, certainly not if you're not local. The restrictions around this area seem designed to stop rat running between St Anne's Road and West Green Road, (A504). There is stuff like this all over London now.
I'm not sure if the Billy Butcher reps are of any use, frankly. It is all mitigation, the signs are present, so you are expected to obey them. Best to never rely on Google Maps when going down minor streets ! Keep to main roads.
-
Hi, I hope you see this and can help . I received a PCN yesterday which reads the same as that supplied by author=Billy Butcher
1) PCN from Haringey - Code 52(M) Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicle) Cornwall Road N15 (Gorleston Rd/Falmer Rd –East - West (X2)
2) I was also using Google Maps, driving from Norfolk to Finsbury Park, was redirected off the north circular at Bull Lane (just looked it up) have spent ages trying to figure out the route I was led on using GMaps (on my latop), with little success, it was a series of small roads I know as a driver I should be responsible for checking the road.. but have no recollection of this junction.
Can you suggest any challenge ... I have read your response to Billy Butcher and have comapred my PCN with there's and apart from dates they appear to be the same, so should I copy the text you supplied to them?
Thanks for your time and for your previous, as Pepipoo, successful help with two parking tickets.
3) PCN links
PCN front https://ibb.co/cSS42qRZ
PCN back https://ibb.co/p6vMnPF4
PCN Photo https://ibb.co/zWzWDV5H
PCN Photo https://ibb.co/8LHMjbzz
Screen grab Google Maps https://ibb.co/fYYBkmJ8
Screen grab Google street view with no markings https://ibb.co/cSBX8VYm
Quote from: Billy Butcher on February 11, 2025, 02:46:52 pm
Received this PCN in haringey I am not familiar with this area at all, also from looking at the picture evidence ( if you want to call it evidence) I have no idea where I went wrong or what I’m even looking at. I was following google maps and do not remember seeing any clear signs stating no motor vehicles allowed. Do I have a case for appeal here ?