Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: stewymclaren on March 25, 2025, 11:56:24 am
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My bad, you have paid. This removes time pressure.
You posted:
THE NEW OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY RETURNED THE CORRESPONDENCE TO SENDER AND
INDICATED I NO LONGER RESIDE THERE ON 18 DECEMBER 2024 AND AGAIN ON 04 JANUARY 2025.
This did not involve the NOR, but refers to other notices the lack of receipt of which is not grounds for a SD.
There are 2 strands to your dilemma:
The penalty: £280(£180*1.5)+£10
The bailiff's fees: £310
The issue of the NoE is central to the latter only and as far as I'm aware there aren't any prescribed means of recovering the £310, it's a matter of direct correspondence with TfL. Bailiffadvice have experience in this area.
As regards the PCN, this was appealed at which point the respondent had the opportunity to notify TfL that address B should be used for all further correspondence. If the respondent did not then IMO not fault attaches to TfL.
IMO, don't submit the OOT until you have the appeal to hand.
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We have paid bailiffs £590 so I do sincerely hope the new house owners and my car are not in jeopardy anymore.
The appeals process is online so all we have is TFLs receipt of the representation which was emailed to us.
The SD is being submitted on point 2; made representations to Transport for London but did not receive a rejection notice from them.
I think what your saying is unlucky, expensive mistake. Bailiffsonline seemed to think we could submit given the address was marked as unknown twice.
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As it stands, it's your neighbours and your car which are in jeopardy. They cannot seize goods in your residence until they've served the mandatory notice.
Nothing is in jeopardy, OP has paid the fine and is now looking to make his SD.
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OP,
This was all done via email - they confirmed receipt of the appeal by email. The address registered to the payment made for the 16 Aug was correct.
How could the appeal have been emailed and yet the sender not have a copy?
Online I could understand, but email?
You are behind the 8 ball. A SD may only be submitted on one of these grounds:
Statutory Declaration
This is a formal legal declaration and can only be made on the grounds that a person:
did not receive the Penalty Charge Notice in question;
made representations to Transport for London but did not receive a rejection notice from them; or
appealed to a Road User Charging Adjudicator against the rejection by Transport for London of representations made by them but had no response to the appeal.
TfL will claim, correctly, that they obtained the RK's address from DVLA which was used for all subsequent notices.
Somehow your wife is the Road User Account Holder at address B, but you are the registered keeper at address A. She 'appealed' the PCN without telling you and presumably because she's the account holder. IMO ONLY if she made clear in the reply that TfL should use the account holder's address for their response would you definitely succeed with a SD.
If you have nothing to add as regards the email's content, then I don't see how you could convince TEC to reset matters. IMO, you need to introduce this as proof in your SD.
Why not get your wife to contact TfL to obtain a copy ASP? She could submit a Subject Access Request, but this could take some time for TfL to fulfil.
As it stands, it's your neighbours and your car which are in jeopardy. They cannot seize goods in your residence until they've served the mandatory notice.
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I dont have a copy of the appeal it was simply that the day of travel was paid but due to severe traffic in the area it took 2 hours to travel 2 miles and subsequently pushed them over midnight. We have email receipt of the appeal.
We do have a tfl account and payments for this car have been made from it but its in my wifes name, but current address.
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Can we see the appeal please. At present this is procedural, so it's what was conveyed by the appeal that's crucial.
In addition, it appears you have a TfL account....so what address is recorded for these purposes?
As written, IMO your draft wouldn't succeed because all the fault comes back to you. You need to get TfL to NOT oppose your OOT otherwise IMO you would not succeed. For this we need process details.
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Not a car park charge. Ulez.
Paid for the date of the concert 16 Aug. But the 2 hour queue to leave the area meant another ulez charge was due for 00:37 on the 17 Aug.
The appeal was just that - there was a huge queue to leave wembley with 3 young children late at night and was oversight. Had paid for the 16 Aug accordingly, hadn't realised it was gone midnight by the time we left. Was willing to pay for 17 Aug as had been done for the 16 Aug.
This was all done via email - they confirmed receipt of the appeal by email. The address registered to the payment made for the 16 Aug was correct.
Then reverted to letters to old address which were never received.
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But surely the amount demanded on TfL's website would have been what was owed and therefore the OP knew at this stage, surely.
Similarly, if paid in advance then this rather undermines the OP's thoughts regarding compliance because they would have known that the ULEZ charge applied.
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On a point of detail, how could being late out of the car park give rise to a ULEZ charge? Surely if you reached the car park then as ULEZ is 24/7 you were liable going in and yet you don't have a PCN for this.
I presume it is paid per calendar day, so payment was made for day going in, but by the time they came out it was 'next' day and another charge was due, but not paid since OP assumed it was the 'same' day and therefore already paid for?
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??
On receipt of the forwarded PCN 'Wife Appealed', 'Did not tell me as the registered keeper.'. Which raises questions in itself.
Then your draft OOT states:
THE REPRESENTATION WAS SUBMITTED UNDER REVIEW 12 SEPTEMBER 2024. THE REPRESENTATION WAS REJECTED AND TFL VERY KINDLY RESET THE DISCOUNT PERIOD. THIS WAS NOT SENT VIA EMAIL AND SO THIS MUST HAVE BEEN SENT VIA POST TO MY INCORRECT ADDRESS.
HAD I RECEIVED THE ORIGINAL REPRESENTATION REJECTION NOTICE I WOULD HAVE DULY PAID THE FINE.
??
So, may we see the 'appeal' sent by your wife pl. IMO, it's key.
Firstly, TfL should not have rejected but instead disregarded because it was not submitted by the registered keeper. And it begs the question why this appeal did not contain the correct address of the appellant because had it done so then TfL would have been obliged to use this address and all subsequent correspondence would have been sent to this address.
On a point of detail, how could being late out of the car park give rise to a ULEZ charge? Surely if you reached the car park then as ULEZ is 24/7 you were liable going in and yet you don't have a PCN for this.
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pe3 / pe2 content
I HAVE LEFT XXX [ADDRESS] AND MOVED TO [MY CURRENT ADDRESS] AND SO DID NOT
RECEIVE THE ORIGINAL PCN. THE NEW OWNERS OF THIS PROPERTY SENT ME A PHOTO OF
THE PCN WHICH I PROVIDED REPRESENTATION FOR ON 07 SEPTEMBER.
I RECEIVED RECEIPT OF THE REPRESENTATION VIA EMAIL TO [EMAIL ADD] ON 7
SEPTEMBER 2024.
THE REPRESENTATION WAS SUBMITTED UNDER REVIEW 12 SEPTEMBER 2024. THE REPRESENTATION WAS REJECTED AND TFL VERY KINDLY RESET THE DISCOUNT PERIOD. THIS WAS NOT SENT VIA EMAIL AND SO THIS MUST HAVE BEEN SENT VIA POST TO MY INCORRECT ADDRESS.
A CHARGE CERTIFICATE WAS BATCHED 05 NOV 2024. THE DEBT REGISTRATION WAS ACCEPTED
16 DECEMBER 2024 AND A NOTICE OF DEBT REGISTRATION WAS ISSUED 16 DECEMBER 2024. AGAIN
THESE WERE NOT ISSUED VIA EMAIL AND SO POSTED TO THE INCORRECT ADDRESS.
THE NEW OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY RETURNED THE CORRESPONDENCE TO SENDER AND
INDICATED I NO LONGER RESIDE THERE ON 18 DECEMBER 2024 AND AGAIN ON 04 JANUARY 2025.
THIS WAS IGNORED AND NO ATTEMPT TO CONTACT ME VIA EMAIL OR VIA THE ADDRESSED
REGISTERED WHEN PAYMENT OF THE CHARGE WAS MADE IN AUGUST 2024.
A BAILIFF AGENT WAS INSTRUCTED 10 MARCH 2025 AND A WARRANT REQUEST WAS ACCEPTED 10 MARCH. A NOTICE OF ENFORCEMENT WAS ISSUED VIA POST TO THE INCORRECT ADDRESS.
I BECAME AWARE OF AN ISSUE WHEN ENFORCEMENT VISITED [OLD ADDRESS] AND THE NEW
OWNERS INFORMED ME OF THIS. I THEN TELEPHONED TFL, TEC AND ENFORCEMENT TO SORT THIS OUT.
THE V5 HAS SINCE BEEN UPDATED TO THE CORRECT ADDRESS.
I WAS THEN INFORMED WHAT HAD HAPPENED BY TFL AND MARSTONS. HAD I RECEIVED THE ORIGINAL REPRESENTATION REJECTION NOTICE I WOULD HAVE DULY PAID THE FINE. PLEASE KINDLY GRANT MY APPLICATION TO SUBMIT A STATUTORY DECLARATION OUT OF TIME.
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Also now considering if the car is ULEZ compliant - will do some research
2012 diesel so unlikely but will research
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Thank you - paid £590 this morning.
I will still appeal as did not know anything about it until neighbour informed me they were outside.
v5 has been updated.
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Not updating one's V5C is the most common reason we see on here for people starting a thread about bailiffs being at their door concerning a PCN they know nothing about. The next stage of bailiff action will see another £235 being added for a visit, it's probably best to now pay the bailiffs. Payment does not affect an SD submission, but as you now know, any that are out-of-time can be objected to, by the enforcement authority.
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Is there any point doing a SD? Read on here that as I didnt update V5 its pointless?
Shall I try to pay some of the debt now?
I am worried enforcement will come back in the meantime
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Ex neighbour has sent me this
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thank you.
The private plate has always been on the car, long before we moved. I only realised it was still listed as our old address when we bought a new car recently and I tried to put another plate on it.
All correspondence in relation to this PCN has been issued to my previous address. Therefore, I knew nothing about the failed appeal until my previous neighbours telephoned me to inform me that enforcement were looking for me at my old address.
To date, I still have no details regarding the PCN or subsequent attempts to recover the fine.
My address was changed on my license with the DVLA as soon as I moved.
I also have an active TFL account for my new address where I have since been duly paying any congestion charges or ULEZ as appropriate.
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You will need to submit an Out of Time (form PE2) (https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk%2Fmedia%2F5aa6b29540f0b66b5fb4b5bc%2Fform-pe2-eng.doc&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK) application with your Statutory Declaration.
The OOT will also need to be witnessed. SDs and OOTs can be witnessed free of charge at any convenient County Court. Phone and check opening hours and make an appointment if necessary. Solicitors now charge £8-£10 per document to witness.
Before you submit please post up what you propose to put on the OOT application. This needs to be the reasons you are late and not anything to do with the original contravention.
For the purposes of these forms you are the respondent and TFL are the applicant.
When did you put the private plate on the car? Before or after the date of contravention?
Just because you received a ULEZ PCN, doesn't mean the car isn't compliant. There are errors and omissions in the database. One way it goes wrong is emissions data not transferring when a private plate is added.
Do you have any documents such as a Notice of Enforcement from the bailiffs? If so, please post it up. Just redact your name and address. Leave everything else visible including any reference numbers and the vehicle reg.
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Received a ULEZ charge for being just after midnight following attending a concert in wembley and it taking over 2 hours to get out of the car park. Went to old address but old neighbours sent on to us.
Wife Appealed - but did not hear back. Did not tell me as the registered keeper.
Old house's new owners today called to say enforcement are at our old house.
Called TFL and they have asked me to complete Statutory Declaration and have witnessed by solicitor.
HELP! Never had this before.
Checked and whilst driving licence etc was changed when we moved. The car has a private plate on so address was not updated. Has now been updated.
Dont have any letters ets as old house owners did not pass on.
Thank you any help on what I need to do to resolve this ASAP! :-[