Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: mr-jp on March 25, 2025, 11:49:22 am
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Good result for you then I guess. ;)
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Update: Thanks for the help everyone this case has now been resolved with me paying the original cost of £94!
After taking in the responses here & getting some advice from a motor solicitor (who said the judge would just ammend the incorrect location in court).
I decided in the end to plead guilty but explain the situation to DVLA in the mitigating circumstances box. I told them I had no problem with paying the original fine in the beginning but them giving the wrong location & no evidence made things harder. I asked them to take that into account when deciding my fine.
A case officer then called me a few days later & said he read my response. Asked if I wanted to settle out of court at the price of the original fine!
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The exact offence is this "on 08/09/2024 you kept or used an unlicensed vehicle on a public road OAKSHADE ROAD, while a SORN was in force, contrary to Section 29 of the Vehicle Excise and registration Act 1994..."
Is the precise road not essential in this case? Genuinely asking
For offences such as speeding, the precise road is important due to differing speed limits on different roads or sections of roads.
In the case of the offence in question, the offence occurs irrespective of which public road or section of that road the vehicle was on.
It's the same case for lack of insurance or when required, lack of a valid MOT. The offence is the fact of the vehicle being on a public road, not on a particular public road.
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That is not the exact offence. And no.
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Haha I know it seems crazy but if the allegation is factually incorrect then wouldn't it be void legally?
Only if proving the precise road the car was on is an essential ingredient of the offence.
The exact offence is this "on 08/09/2024 you kept or used an unlicensed vehicle on a public road OAKSHADE ROAD, while a SORN was in force, contrary to Section 29 of the Vehicle Excise and registration Act 1994..."
Is the precise road not essential in this case? Genuinely asking
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And if the court refused to amend the information.
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Haha I know it seems crazy but if the allegation is factually incorrect then wouldn't it be void legally?
Only if proving the precise road the car was on is an essential ingredient of the offence.
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If you pay the £94 is that it? Or could they still come after you for more later.
If that’s it take it, it will cost you more than £94 to take a day off work even if by some miracle you win in court.
Too late for £94 now. If I plead guilty I guess I'll be paying around £700+ & if I lose in court I guess I'll be paying £1100+ but I don't have much to lose at this point tbh
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So your defence will be:
“Yes, my car was on a road when I’d declared it off road and not paid tax. But it wasn’t that road. It was another road.”
I’d think long and hard before running that if I were you. (In fact that’s wrong – I wouldn’t have to think for very long at all 8) ).
Haha I know it seems crazy but if the allegation is factually incorrect then wouldn't it be void legally? Sure they could then penalise me for it being on my friends road but they would have to start the whole process again & I could then pay £94 & finally put an end to this.
I've seen people win parking fines before this same way. E.g. If a pcn says u entered a bus gate at 7:05pm but video footage shows u entered exactly at 7pm & ur car wasnt there at the alleged time then the allegation didn't happen.
& I've also had a speeding ticket cancelled based on a camera calibration certificate not being upto date too
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If you pay the £94 is that it? Or could they still come after you for more later.
If that’s it take it, it will cost you more than £94 to take a day off work even if by some miracle you win in court.
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So your defence will be:
“Yes, my car was on a road when I’d declared it off road and not paid tax. But it wasn’t that road. It was another road.”
I’d think long and hard before running that if I were you. (In fact that’s wrong – I wouldn’t have to think for very long at all 8) ).
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Luckily they responded to my email today & gave me access to the evidence. They did have pictures of my car on the road, but as my friend said it was parked on his road & not the location stated by NSL.
They have 3 pictures of my car but nothing with an address or road name. I think I will try to fight it in court
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Thanks so much for all your help & the information. I will contact NSL again & try to get the evidence. Will decide from there
They may treat this as a Subject Access Request (under Data Protection Act) and may not respond particularly quickly...
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I will be sent details of any sentence & fine. Which I'm not sure what those are
The maximum fine is £1,000 or five times the annual duty (whichever is greater).
The recommended fine is a multiple of your weekly income, between a half and one and a half times that amount (depending on how much unpaid tax). The fine will be reduced by one third if you plead guilty. You will also pay the DVLA’s costs and be ordered to pay the unpaid tax (for all the time since the tax was last paid).
You can work out what that means to you, but I would say it will certainly be more than £94 – probably considerably more.
Of course if you are certain the DVLA will be unable to prove their case you should plead not guilty. Your case will then be taken out of the Single Justice process and you will face trial in court. If you are acquitted it will cost you nothing.
Since it seems the out-of-court offer is now off the table, you should receive the evidence the DVLA has so you should be able to take a decision how to plead.
Thanks so much for all your help & the information. I will contact NSL again & try to get the evidence. Will decide from there
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I will be sent details of any sentence & fine. Which I'm not sure what those are
The maximum fine is £1,000 or five times the annual duty (whichever is greater).
The recommended fine is a multiple of your weekly income, between a half and one and a half times that amount (depending on how much unpaid tax). The fine will be reduced by one third if you plead guilty. You will also pay the DVLA’s costs and be ordered to pay the unpaid tax (for all the time since the tax was last paid).
You can work out what that means to you, but I would say it will certainly be more than £94 – probably considerably more.
Of course if you are certain the DVLA will be unable to prove their case you should plead not guilty. Your case will then be taken out of the Single Justice process and you will face trial in court. If you are acquitted it will cost you nothing.
Since it seems the out-of-court offer is now off the table, you should receive the evidence the DVLA has so you should be able to take a decision how to plead.
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I've literally responded to people trying to help me. Where have I repeated the same question?
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The Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines are available online. If you keep on repeating the same question, somebody might look it up for you. Or I might lock the thread.
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& sometimes my friend had the keys, he said he once may have moved it off his driveway briefly when relatives came to visit but only next to his house & not at the location or time that was stated.
May have?
Either he did or he didn't and whichever is the case, he would know for sure so his saying "may have" would have alarm bells ringing for me for sure.
Before you consider going to court, I would have another word with your friend and get them to understand that if it goes to court and the DVLA produce evidence of the car being used on the road, it will end up costing an awful lot more than the £94 they are currently asking for.
Yeah I took it as he did but don't think he'd lie to me about the location or time tbh. Which is why I was thinking to fight this in court, because as far as I know my car hasn't been on the road it was apparently sighted on.
Problem is, I am way past the £94 stage now. They are saying if I plead guilty my case will be dealt with under 'single justice procedure' & I will be sent details of any sentence & fine. Which I'm not sure what those are
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& sometimes my friend had the keys, he said he once may have moved it off his driveway briefly when relatives came to visit but only next to his house & not at the location or time that was stated.
May have?
Either he did or he didn't and whichever is the case, he would know for sure so his saying "may have" would have alarm bells ringing for me for sure.
Before you consider going to court, I would have another word with your friend and get them to understand that if it goes to court and the DVLA produce evidence of the car being used on the road, it will end up costing an awful lot more than the £94 they are currently asking for.
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When the police or DVLA make an allegation and offer you an out-of-court disposal to settle the matter without prosecution, they do not have to provide you with evidence (though they sometimes do). Your choice is either to accept their offer or face prosecution.
That is the position you are in. If you further decline their offer they will almost certainly prosecute you. They will then have to provide you with the evidence they intend to rely on to convict you and you can choose to plead guilty or not guilty. If you are convicted you will be sentenced in accordance with the Magistrates’ sentencing guidelines.
Have you enquired of your friend to establish whether the allegation might be justified (i.e. did he take the car off his drive)?
Wow ok I find that quite unfair. After looking online I saw other people with cases of their car being falsely flagged in the wrong location by NSL & then when they asked for proof their case was eventually dropped.
Thanks for the information. If I am correct is the sentencing a £1000 fine?
My friend said they may have moved it once but just outside their house & not at the location or time where DVLA & NSL stated.
If their evidence is incorrect & they don't have proof of my car being at the location stated do I have any chance to win this case?
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I took the photo after the allegation to show where I had left it the past few months but don't think I included a timestamp. Just the picture
& sometimes my friend had the keys, he said they once may have moved it off their driveway briefly when they had relatives visit but only next to their house & not at the location or time that was stated.
So he admits he moved it once. could he have moved it more than once?
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I took the photo after the allegation to show where I had left it the past few months but don't think I included a timestamp. Just the picture
& sometimes my friend had the keys, he said he once may have moved it off his driveway briefly when relatives came to visit but only next to his house & not at the location or time that was stated.
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When the police or DVLA make an allegation and offer you an out-of-court disposal to settle the matter without prosecution, they do not have to provide you with evidence (though they sometimes do). Your choice is either to accept their offer or face prosecution.
That is the position you are in. If you further decline their offer they will almost certainly prosecute you. They will then have to provide you with the evidence they intend to rely on to convict you and you can choose to plead guilty or not guilty. If you are convicted you will be sentenced in accordance with the Magistrates’ sentencing guidelines.
Have you enquired of your friend to establish whether the allegation might be justified (i.e. did he take the car off his drive)?
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Others with more expertise than me will no doubt be along shortly, but two things that immediately stand out:
- You mention that you sent a photo of the car parked on a driveway, but don't mention when this photo was taken. Is it timestamped, and if so, when?
- You mention that you would pay the sum demanded if you saw 'proof'. This suggests you are open to the possibility that your vehicle has been driven whilst SORN. Who has access to the keys, and what steps have you taken to determine if and when they might have used the vehicle?
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Hey guys, I recently received a letter from DVLA threatening to take me to court over an allegation of having an unlicensed vehicle sighted on a public road. They are asking me to plead guilty or not guilty.
This relates to my previous car, which has been left parked on my friends front driveway & SORNED off road for a few months. But DVLA said an NSL van saw it on a different road which is 5 mins away (at 5am) & not at the location it is parked currently.
Timeline of Events:
15/10/24: I received a letter from DVLA demanding £94 for an alleged sighting of my vehicle. However, they provided no proof or evidence of this claim.
In response, I denied the allegation and supplied a photo of my car on my friend’s driveway, along with a Google Maps location. I also requested evidence from DVLA to support their allegation.
DVLA’s Response: They informed me that the sighting was made by NSL wheel-clamping contractors and advised me to contact NSL directly for evidence.
NSL’s Response: After I emailed NSL, they responded requesting an excessive amount of personal information including: my driving licence or passport, proof of address (dated within 3 months), a copy of the V5C logbook, and a photo of the VIN on the vehicle JUST for them to even look into this matter further. So once again I was left with no evidence.
At the time I received NSLs response, I was traveling abroad and could not provide these documents immediately. However, I also found their request unusual and excessive & wasn't sure if this was some sort of scam. In the past, DVLA has always included proof of any allegation with their fines & never required such information of me before.
Now a few months later I have received another letter threatening to take me to court but still haven't seen any evidence. They have also stated that I disputed their claim but provided them with no supporting evidence even though I sent them pictures of where my car is parked.
I would've been ok with paying the original fine if I had seen proof but definitely not without it & not sure how I can defend myself fairly without seeing any evidence after contacting the 2 parties involved.
I am planning to plead not guilty & fight it in court but is there any other advice anyone can give me here?