Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: sugden on March 20, 2025, 07:05:24 pm

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: Incandescent on June 02, 2025, 10:43:46 am

From recent cases, it seems TPT has totally removed consideration of any cases where "procedural impropriety" is part of the appeal. In addition, by using the "no prejudice" argument to refuse such cases, they are actually applying mitigation, which they are not allowed to consider. Hm..

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: cp8759 on June 02, 2025, 09:50:41 am

Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uOxxfiu47epnJgEdAahUx9jTItEbpGKw/view), the adjudicator seems to have missed the point about some of the evidence uploaded to the council website, but the reality is that if she's decided to refuse the appeal it doesn't really matter what you say, she'll just disagree with whatever arguments you advance.

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: cp8759 on April 22, 2025, 10:05:11 pm

For reference:

Nottingham City Council (Moving Traffic, City of Nottingham, Consolidation Order) (No. 1) Traffic Regulation Order 2013 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y-YopVJpn4TPaIibp4oy_4WN64lohCV8/view)

Nottingham City Council (Collin Street Area, Nottingham) (Broadmarsh Improvements) (One Way Streets, Prohibitions of Driving Movement and No Entry) Traffic Regulation Order 2018 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tN_Fq6GaxWzYT0V_dqW5snFm5i-2Mwhl/view)

Nottingham City Council (Canal Street, Nottingham) (Prohibitions of Driving – Bus Lanes) Traffic Regulation Order 2023 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WIM6llj5yvgEHG9_ed85IBCMz63UFxmT/view)

Camera FOI response (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_u4k1nPMO0LjT98zkFXfY0-_F1Wbb9VU/view).

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: cp8759 on March 22, 2025, 07:34:43 pm

I've sent you a PM.

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: sugden on March 22, 2025, 07:12:07 pm

That would be great if you're happy to do that! Let me know what details I need to send

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: cp8759 on March 21, 2025, 10:45:39 pm

I have requested the traffic order as well as the CCTV camera make and model, but obviously in the meantime we need to make representations. The most obvious basis I can see is that really the PCN should have been issued for contravention of the no-left turn prohibition, as that is what the signage provides for your direction of travel.

I also think the dashcam footage can be used to get a failure to consider, see the decisions on rows 170 to 177 here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit?gid=642784037#gid=642784037&range=A170).

If you want to go down this route it would probably be easier if I submitted the representations on your behalf.

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: sugden on March 21, 2025, 06:39:56 pm

https://imgur.com/a/6Afp9Rz - dashcam footage. At the end where it cuts out I just do a U turn.

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: cp8759 on March 21, 2025, 11:44:28 am

@Incandescent the answer to your query is found in Oxfordshire County Council, R (on the application of) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator [2010] EWHC 894 (Admin) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mNVj6Ot_5htvFuxDu6SpIz0vkqQTz9XQ/view), the short version is that they can use diagram 619 to enforce a bus lane.

As above, let's see the dashcam footage please.

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: Hippocrates on March 21, 2025, 10:19:10 am

Let's see the video and dashcam footage please.

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: Incandescent on March 20, 2025, 11:26:46 pm

I have to say I have my suspicions that they can serve a PCN for a bus lane contravention under the TMA 2004, when the sign is a "Flying Motorbike" sign.  Nottingham have previous form with this sort of thing. However, it is just my suspicion and I hope others will confirm or deny this soon. It's my understanding that powers in the TMA to allow councils to enforce moving traffic offences were bing rolled out, but this was recently suspended.

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: sugden on March 20, 2025, 10:26:13 pm

Please accept my apologies:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kmXsZj2dypao6qeD6?g_st=ac

NG46093444

CA12 UOD

https://imgur.com/9nRUdJV

FWIW I have dashcam footage too, but not sure how relevant it really is.

I have attached a copy of the video. Please let me know if this is ok.

Title: Re: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: John U.K. on March 20, 2025, 07:48:13 pm

Please post a GSV link to the location, and a copy of the video.
Please also give us the PCN number and Reg Mark - see
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Title: penalty charge notice- bus lane violation
Post by: sugden on March 20, 2025, 07:05:24 pm

Hello,

I have attached the notice received from Nottingham City Council.

Its unclear to me, because there aren't any signs that say this area is a bus lane. Granted theres a no motor vehicles except permit holders, buses, and loading by HGVs.

I am not from Nottingham, didn't see the sign as I was turning left and pretty quickly realised my mistake and turned around.

Is there any chance I can escape this? It was a genuine mistake and didn't really hurt anyone.

(https://i.imgur.com/dwOBXJo.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/F0cqYjd.jpeg)

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