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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: joebloggs on September 19, 2023, 08:29:09 pm

Title: Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
Post by: cp8759 on September 24, 2023, 04:54:34 pm
PLease don't bloat-quote. It's only an informal representation and I have a judicial review to prepare for, but for now this will do:

Dear London Borough of Richmond upon Thames,

I challenge liability for PCN RT39421829 on the following grounds.

The contravention cannot have occurred because The London Borough of Richmond upon Thames (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Civil Enforcement Area) (Consolidation No. 8) Order 2008  does not create a waiting restriction at this location. This is because the provisions of the order relevant to this street make reference to a location that does not exist.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
Post by: joebloggs on September 23, 2023, 07:37:01 pm
Yes, I would be happy to completing a technical challenge if you have the time?
Title: Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
Post by: cp8759 on September 21, 2023, 11:57:52 pm
Quote from: John U.K. on September 21, 2023, 07:48:44 am
Atr the time of making the order (2008) The Rugby Tavern, 68 London Road (on the corner with and accessible from Arragon Road) was derelict
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CtGvfDV4riWP4J278

Today it is Shack 68
https://whatpub.com/pubs/HOU/6855/shack-68-twickenham
https://maps.app.goo.gl/E9fMXuMSZeebt3yTA
I noticed that too, but whether the council would realise that and be capable of articulating the point is another matter. At the very least we should be able to get a failure to consider.
Title: Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
Post by: John U.K. on September 21, 2023, 07:48:44 am
Atr the time of making the order (2008) The Rugby Tavern, 68 London Road (on the corner with and accessible from Arragon Road) was derelict
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CtGvfDV4riWP4J278

Today it is Shack 68
https://whatpub.com/pubs/HOU/6855/shack-68-twickenham
https://maps.app.goo.gl/E9fMXuMSZeebt3yTA
Title: Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
Post by: cp8759 on September 21, 2023, 12:24:09 am
CEO notes:

(https://i.imgur.com/d26ZupU.jpg)

Selection of CEO photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/tislIEd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/EVD0SNB.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/nSeCHK4.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Yzopaw9.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/w3hI6mr.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SjxfZh0.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/qMpgleL.jpg)

So on the left here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/2RGyh4qMddf38DUt5

The traffic order is The London Borough of Richmond upon Thames (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Civil Enforcement Area) (Consolidation No. 8) Order 2008 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1fyMsk9okkclXvl9ZCAbfRx_nyFPGGCqs) and the relevant entry is 23(b)(ii) on page 23, however there is no “Rugby Tavern” public house on Arragon Road, which is a bit of a problem. The nearest Rugby Tavern I could find was over 10 miles away, so it seems the traffic order purports to create a restriction by reference to a landmark that doesn't exist.

Joebloggs if you're up for pursuing a technical challenge I can draft something for you, however you must assume the council won't accept anything you say and realistically this will have to be taken further (i.e. to the tribunal in due course).
Title: Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
Post by: joebloggs on September 20, 2023, 12:22:21 pm
Thank you for your response. It is appreciated.
Photos have been uploaded now on Richmond now.
Title: Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
Post by: Incandescent on September 19, 2023, 09:16:48 pm
If the driver is you, you can tell us, as the owner of the vehicle has responsibility for payment, not the driver. Of course they may be one and the same.
A quick look at Arragon Road on GSV shows a lot of single yellow lines and the hours are 08.30 to 18.30, so this does look a bit of a money-grubbing PCN, I have to say.  However, I cannot see any credible appeal argument re the contravention itself. The PCN also looks OK-ish, although I'm not happy with the text saying what to do if one receives a Notice to Owner.It is not strictly in accordance with the mandatory information, which emphasises that even if a challenge is made before a Notice to Owner is issued, that reps must be made afresh against the NtO.  This is to avoid the situation of a PCN recipient submitting a challenge, but not getting a response, receives an NtO, but doesn't submit the reps again as he thinks he has already made representations.
I don't think the text on the PCN is clear enough on this aspect. Quite why the council couldn't have just put the text in the regulations on PCN content straight into its PCNs is a mystery.
Title: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
Post by: joebloggs on September 19, 2023, 08:29:09 pm
Hi all,
Any help with the PCN today would be greatly received.
After working all night the driver could not get back to the car in time to move it.
There do not appear to be any photos online.


Can the driver appeal?

Thank you so so much in advance.


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