Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Harken on March 19, 2025, 10:36:04 am
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The Tribunal wants to be satisfied that all is order, that's all.
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My reading of the letter tells me that you are required to submit your original representations. The 4th paragraph in bold type makes this clear.
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Hi Everyone,
Here's the latest on the above, we're at this point now. Are we able to add "new" representations at this stage or do we follow the instructions in the letter?
(https://i.imgur.com/VzReurO.jpeg)
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It looks as if the Council received/issued something on 5th Feb - anymore thoughts on this?
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We didn't receive any other correspondence and neither did we send anything. The only thing that was sent on the 5th were the CCs.
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Just jumping back in here as I wanted to make sure that I'm doing the right thing by taking these actions ASAP mentioned in my reply here:
Next step seems to be:
Fill in the forms they sent me, tick box 2 and leave the reasons box blank for both. Sign them in the presence of a solicitor, scan them and email them separately to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number for each one in the subject line of the email.
Will start the ball rolling on this if/when advised to do so.
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They are identical yes.
I can say that the general gist of what was sent is that liability was accepted for one of the charges but we felt it was over the top to charge twice for two contraventions in quick succession.
I realise now this has probably caused me problems so I am hoping that we can at least change our approach from accepting liability for one, to trying to prove the PCNs weren't constructed in a way that is enforceable.
The timeline is:
PCNs arrive, partner replies, they get back and say she can't reply, I reply with the rough message of above. No response. Charge Certs come through, nothing sent from us (we were still waiting for a reply to our prior letter), and then order for recovery came through a couple days ago for both.
Here are both of them:
(https://i.imgur.com/Xgh0sME.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zPL2BS9.png)
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. I then replied to both with one letter.
As you can see on the rejections, the wording makes it sounds like a letter has to be sent and therefore we don't have a copy of what we sent to them.
It is a pity you did not get a free certificate of posting when you bought the stamps. However . . .
Is the Council timeline for the other PCN identical? please post it.
Would your computer somewhere have a draft of the letter you wrote ands posted on 23rd Jan?
If not, please try and reconstruct it to the best of your memory.
It looks as if the Council received/issued something on 5th Feb - anymore thoughts on this?
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Oh, very strange. It should be a collection of 7 images...
Let's see if this works
(https://i.imgur.com/iXDckyi.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/i3bvDcA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/WphRVVs.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/7mdH6aW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/dDTaoRi.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1GkqhDn.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/VjBAdm5.png)
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I have added the PCN overviews & the rejections to the linked IMGUR page.
. . .
This is also represented on their timeline which is also in the IMGUR files
I can only see the original CC 1st page at your link :(
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Next step seems to be:
Fill in the forms they sent me, tick box 2 and leave the reasons box blank for both. Sign them in the presence of a solicitor, scan them and email them separately to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number for each one in the subject line of the email.
Will start the ball rolling on this if/when advised to do so.
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Thanks for the reply.
I have added the PCN overviews & the rejections to the linked IMGUR page. I am currently at work but will have a rummage around to find any additional requested information. Incl the back of the CCs.
She replied to them separately initially, which is why we received 2 letters back rejecting them. I then replied to both with one letter.
As you can see on the rejections, the wording makes it sounds like a letter has to be sent and therefore we don't have a copy of what we sent to them.
However, I do have a receipt from where I sent my reply back to these rejections. This is also represented on their timeline which is also in the IMGUR files.
Yes, I only attached one of them but we did receive a CC for the other PCN as well.
I will speak to my partner later to get a good overview of the timeline and subsequent correspondence.
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(https://i.imgur.com/iXDckyi.png)
Please post remaining pages of the CC.
Have you read through
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/
It looks as if you need PE3 rather than PE2. Others, more expert than myself, will confirm.
Please give us a timeline for each PCN and the subsequent correspondence, and post up copies of the reps, the 1st rejections, and of the new reps. Have you received a CC for the other PCN?
Did you combine the reps for both PCN into one rep?
As I see it, you need to establish you can truthfully say that as RK you received no NoR of reps submitted in time.
What is the online staus/history of each PCN on Haringey's website?
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Hi everyone,
My partner drove through a couple restricted zones, we made representations to the original PCNs. She replied in her name initially which they rejected, as it’s my name on the vehicle, once I replied in my name we didn't receive a reply. We continued to attempt to correspond via letter and it has now escalated to the charge certificate/order for recovery stage. We received 2 PCNs a few months back now and can't find them anymore.
Original issue date was 07/11/2024 for the PCNs and it looks like a few posts here from the same council around the same time all had issues with the PCNs which make them unenforceable.
We had offered to pay only one of the charges as both contraventions occurred within moments of each other but now I'm at a stage where I don't want to be mugged off by them and would rather tell them where to go.
I will be looking to get the PE3 form signed and witnessed in front of a local solicitor, with option 2 selected. Is it possible to get the process rolled back to the PCN stage again where I can make proper representations against it?
https://imgur.com/a/fQBCyfh
(Apologies, couldn't figure out the BB Code stuff)
Thanks for all that you do and looking forward to hearing back from you soon.
"Edited to correct PE2 to PE3"