Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: unpresidented16 on September 19, 2023, 06:07:43 pm
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Why didn't you pay the PCN on the 4th of April when you saw that it had been reverted to £65? That reversion implies to me that Newham reissued the Notice of Rejection with the discount reinstated, probably for a further 14 days? Either they did so because the Adjudicator directed that the NoR be re-served, or they pre-empted that possibility and re-served anyway. Or they have a standing instruction to do so still in place.
I would have thought that £65 is the best outcome you were were ever likely to get. There doesn't seem to be any chance of prevailing at adjudication on the merits of the contravention itself. Basically you're bang to rights.
A procedural mess up by the Council might still win at adjudication but we won't be able to tease out that possibility until you get the case in front of the Adjudicator and the full evidence pack with the case progression history is served on you.
At the moment all you can do is follow up with the London Tribunals and find out what was directed, if anything at all, as advised above by cp9759. Please report back when you do so.
You may well have to wait for another Order for Recovery to be issued and submit a new Statutory Declaration.
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@WhoLetTheScamsOut you can just call the tribunal on 020 7520 7200 and ask if the PCN has been referred to them. If it has, give your email and ask for the comms preference to be changed from post to email.
The fact that the amount is back at £130 is a strong suggestion that the case has indeed gone to the tribunal.
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Newham should refer the matter to the Tribunal as advised. Meanwhile, don't bother watching the kettle boil. ;)
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Update:
13/05 today I checked the pcn on newham website and it’s showing £130 yet I still haven’t received any paperwork regarding the pcn from either the TEC or newham after the initial TEC letter regarding cc cancelled.
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Update:
On 4th April 2024 I checked the pcn status and it has been reverted back to £65 discount. On the 1st April 2024 it was still showing £204 so sometime between the 2nd and 4th it was reverted back. I have screenshots of this just incase it’s needed. A full week has gone by, the discount option is still there but no correspondence has been received yet. Will update further if anything comes through. Thanks again
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Good shout, will do that
When taking a screenshot, always open another browser window showing the website https://time.is so that it's timestamped.
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Good shout, will do that
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Take a screenshot of the Newham evidence page, the page which shows £204 due. Keep it safe, to show the Adjudicator that as of today the 3rd March, so over a month since the court order from the TEC, apparently Newham still haven't actioned it. In fact get a screenshot whenever you check going forward.
However the delay could be with the London Tribunals. Where the Statutory Declaration is for no Notice of Rejection received then the matter should be referred to the Adjudicator at London Tribunals for direction on how to proceed.
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Your PCN is still showing as £204 on the council website. Newham would have been informed of the outcome of your statutory declaration electronically after 16:00pm on the 2nd Feb 2024. So really the website should have updated by now since the Charge Certificate was ordered cancelled.
Have you had any correspondence from the London Tribunals?
Have you changed address at any time since the alleged contravention? Is the name & address 100% current and correct on the V5c for the car?
Received No correspondence from tribunals, the charge notice being cancelled was the last thing i received regarding this pcn.
Nope i have not changed address and yes the V5C is correct and uptodate with current address.
The longer they take the better for me right?
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Your PCN is still showing as £204 on the council website. Newham would have been informed of the outcome of your statutory declaration electronically after 16:00pm on the 2nd Feb 2024. So really the website should have updated by now since the Charge Certificate was ordered cancelled.
Have you had any correspondence from the London Tribunals?
Have you changed address at any time since the alleged contravention? Is the name & address 100% current and correct on the V5c for the car?
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Apologies for the delayed reply i lost access to my account and cannot reset the password so i will be using this account to keep up to date. I had a direct upload of the pcn with my original post but here is link to the pcn on dropbox.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g4miotmg5r7rp16y3w0hx/50u-pcn-newham.pdf?rlkey=t1z4n9p6eiff0dl19jwsuswtg&dl=0
My appeal was merely based in descretion to buy some time whilst CP had gotten the traffic order for said location. I still have a copy of my appeal somewhere.
Edit:
Pcn number: PN73969095
reg: AF06YVS
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As per Enceladus:
(11)Where a declaration has been served under sub-paragraph (2)(b) or (c) above, the enforcing authority shall refer the case to the traffic adjudicator who may give such direction as he considers appropriate.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
IF they send you another NOR or demands for payment, forget it! I am more than happy to take this one on.
BUT: we are rather short on documents.
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What reason did you tick on the Statutory Declaration form that you sent to the Traffic Enforcement Centre?
What's the date on the order you received from the TEC cancelling the Charge Cert?
I ticked notice of rejection not received. Instead I received a cost of living crisis helpsheet from them in December. The date of the order is 02/02/2024
The case should be referred to the independent adjudicator for direction on how to proceed. So if you hear anything from the London tribunals please make sure you respond.
That said the current working practice is likely that you will receive a letter from Newham with a copy of the Notice of Rejection. You would then have an option to pay the charge (possibly at the discount rate) or to appeal to the adjudicator.
What's the PCN number and vehicle reg. You haven't yet told us these as per the instructions at the top of the forum.
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What reason did you tick on the Statutory Declaration form that you sent to the Traffic Enforcement Centre?
What's the date on the order you received from the TEC cancelling the Charge Cert?
I ticked notice of rejection not received. Instead I received a cost of living crisis helpsheet from them in December. The date of the order is 02/02/2024
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What reason did you tick on the Statutory Declaration form that you sent to the Traffic Enforcement Centre?
What's the date on the order you received from the TEC cancelling the Charge Cert?
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Just be patient.
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Update:
Thought id update since the charge certificate was last issued. So i done the TEC form and submitted it and a few days ago received a confirmation of charge certificate was cancelled. Now just waiting for newham’s next move but the charge still shows £204 on their website.
Newham are a dozy lot so just take your time.
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Update:
Thought id update since the charge certificate was last issued. So i done the TEC form and submitted it and a few days ago received a confirmation of charge certificate was cancelled. Now just waiting for newham’s next move but the charge still shows £204 on their website.
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Yes, but don't just sit and wait for it. From now on you must be proactive after the payment period on the CC expires. Ring TEC every 7-10 days to enquire if the PCN has been registered. ALthough the OfR should include the relevant TEC forms, you can download them from their website
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
Hope it all goes well
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What's the date on the Charge Cert?
When did you submit your representations (challenge)?
How did you submit, online form, posted letter, etc?
You haven't posted up the original PCN. What is the date of the PCN?
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Update:
Received a charge certificate in the post few days ago. Im guessing they rejected the appeal but I didn’t receive the NOR. I’m guess I wait for the Order of Recovery and file the TEC?
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I would expect to see camera signs at this location but there doesn't appear to be any.
Mike
Is it mandatory to have camera signs?
Anyway today the camera signs are present. Google Street View is out of date. One sign under the 30mph sign and one under each of the no u-turn signs. Albeit the one on the nearside pavement has been turned anti-clockwise 80deg and is nearly edge on to the traffic flow.
The camera is on a pole on the north pavement of Chadwin Road at it's junction with New Barn Street.
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I would expect to see camera signs at this location but there doesn't appear to be any.
Mike
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Here is The Newham (Prescribed Routes) (No 2) Traffic Order 2012 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1WPeYa9ekyg6hd5jSj2t4-zqDoa0VjlNQ), let us know when you have a response from the council and we'll see if there's anything that warrants taking this further.
Will do, thanks CP appreciate it 🙏🏻
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Here is The Newham (Prescribed Routes) (No 2) Traffic Order 2012 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1WPeYa9ekyg6hd5jSj2t4-zqDoa0VjlNQ), let us know when you have a response from the council and we'll see if there's anything that warrants taking this further.
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Good point, I will trim it down as you suggested. Thanks
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As a general reminder, making a false representation is a criminal offence (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/paragraph/8/enacted). While you do not have to incriminate yourself, you can't say that you took the wrong exit if this isn't the case. If you've been taking this route for 4 years without issue it seems implausible that you took the wrong exit, it also seems you knew about the no u-turn signs so you can't say that you missed them as you knew they were there.
With that in mind, I think you'll have to trim your representation by deleting the part before "As this is...".
As the only purpose of this representation is to buy time, what is left will suffice.
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How's this:
Dear London Borough of Newham
On the day of the contravention I entered newbarn st via A13 and realised I took the wrong exit as I needed the next exit (prince regent lane). The weather conditions on that day was very sunny and I had my sun visor down and have missed the "no u-turn" sign. As this is my very first PCN from yourselves, I would ask you to exercise your discretion on this occasion. I realise the importance of such signage and going forward I will be more attentive to my surroundings before performing such actions.
Yours faithfully
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I've requested the traffic management order, in the meantime you should make a plea for discretion in order to preserve the discount. Post a draft on here in the first instance.
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Pcn was attached as file but i will add it as imgur link soon
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With two very prominent "No U-Turn" signs, I can't see any possible argument against the contravention itself, but the PCN may contain fatal errors so post it. No doubt the camera was added because rather too many people were U-turning here and endangering other road users.
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SO I exited the A13 and did a u-turn to go under the overpass towards freemasons road. There is a no u-turn sign but I've been doing it for 4 years no without an issue but it seems recently they added a camera there and unfortunately I got caught out. I was just wondering if it would be possible to appeal it or do I bite the bullet and take the L.
Street view: https://maps.app.goo.gl/JEWJ6TAJfSoNg4kbA
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMNdAw7IoWc&ab_channel=aafdf
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