Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Collateral on March 18, 2025, 01:06:05 am
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As an update for everyone. I sent these in and they cancelled one of the tickets. Paid the other one.
Thank you for your help.
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OK thank you. I just sent the reps.
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Just submit reps asap, on the lines that you are a complete stranger to Preston and managed to get lost whilst trying to <insert reason for being there>. Just say that you accept you passed two separate signs, but would ask for the second PCN to be cancelled, as it is a disproportionate penalty for what is, essentially, a single contravenention, namely driving along the whole length of Corporation Street during late evening.
If they decide you're over the limit for submitting reps, they'll tell you.
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So when i log on to check the tickets :
i see the grounds of appeal as:
Any other ground
General Representation
I was not the owner of the vehicle
Procedural impropriety
The contravention did not occur
The order was invalid
The pcn has been paid
The penalty charge exceeded the amount
The vehicle was taken without my consent
We are a hire firm
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Any other ground
General Representation
Procedural impropriety
The order was invalid
I see the above the options i could chose from? which one should i choose.
Also i am unsure of how to word what you have wrote as i dont really understand it. Amo just copying and pasting it. one date is on the 24/02, and the other 21/02. have i not exceeded the 28 days now.
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Thank you for the responses. So what should i do please?
Submit informal reps on the lines I indicated, ask for the second PCN to be cancelled. No point in coughing-up until they've refused your reps, and in refusing, may shoot themselves in the foot and give you an appeal argument.
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Thank you for the responses. So what should i do please?
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reps = representations. It does save us regulars a lot of key strokes !
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IMO, the '28-day period' has been misstated.
This occurs in 2 stages. The first is clearly mandatory, the second less prescribed but arguably of equal weight.
The first reference is on page 1 and is the warning regarding the implications of neither making representations[in accordance with reg 5 of the Appeals regs] nor paying the penalty within the 28-day period:
(f)that if after the last day of the period referred to in sub-paragraph (d)—
(i)no representations have been made in accordance with regulation 5 of the 2022 Appeals Regulations, and
(ii)the penalty charge has not been paid,
the enforcement authority may increase the penalty charge by the amount of any applicable surcharge and take steps to enforce payment of the charge as so increased,
(d) that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,
The regs don't prescribe form of language to be used to convey (f)(i) and in this case the authority have chosen:
'..representations which are made after the end of this 28 day period['within 28 days of the date on which this notice was served'] may be disregarded.'
And IMO it's wrong.
There's only one '28-day period' and it's 28 days beginning on the day of service, not within 28 days because the latter adds a day which in this case could leave the keeper exposed because they'd risk becoming liable to a surcharge penalty.
Some thoughts for discussion or destined for the long grass!
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Sorry for my if ignorance. What is reps and how do I submit them.
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Ok.So the PCN looks compliant to me. I'm not sure what else you might submit reps on, maybe ask for the second PCN to be cancelled as you were lost and it is a disproportionate penalty for a simple mistake.
Certainly I think that whilst there is little so far to submit reps on, it is always worthwhile to submit them, even if on the basis of "please take pity on me, a stranger to your city who got lost".
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Sorry. This is 3 of 4.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1pbxsfbkghdbh2vsmr702/Photo-21-03-2025-19-41-50.jpg?rlkey=y74c1oqixl8d63vr97nuadh3m&dl=0
Page 4 : but this is blank
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rxi076an1tk63mz7jutdo/Photo-21-03-2025-19-42-07.jpg?rlkey=7cef84dpe5csj6iujmq0pcwb2&dl=0
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Here are the links to the back of the PCN. Thank you.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dq8swy65o6rf0j7gk56p6/Photo-21-03-2025-17-26-21.jpg?rlkey=5650fiq3qy035znte2v20xno4&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9vq2jhugrsxqj0p6f7k3j/Photo-21-03-2025-17-26-26.jpg?rlkey=yudesn27197cx2g9bjjuap4d0&dl=0
Sorry, but it doesn't look complete. The statutory grounds surely go onto another page ? At the moment we can only see Page 2 but there is page 3 & 4.
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Here are the links to the back of the PCN. Thank you.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dq8swy65o6rf0j7gk56p6/Photo-21-03-2025-17-26-21.jpg?rlkey=5650fiq3qy035znte2v20xno4&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9vq2jhugrsxqj0p6f7k3j/Photo-21-03-2025-17-26-26.jpg?rlkey=yudesn27197cx2g9bjjuap4d0&dl=0
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So do you need to see the back of the PCN? As all the driver and pictures info is on the first page / the back is about how to pay the charge.
Yes. You'd be surprised how often there are errors in the 'small print' which are fatal to a PCN's enforcement. Until the experts here have a look, they cannot spot any errors.
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See this thread:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/34j-being-in-a-bus-lane-lancashire/
That's the location for the first PCN
Here's the second location
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fPxt7j2TzEfacjKS7
Looks like the OP drove all the way up Corporation Street and hence passed the two bus gates. We need to see all pages of the PCN to see if the same fatal errors are present. There is a warning about the bus gate before one gets t them: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/o63qKeBZbdPfEBY99
So do you need to see the back of the PCN? As all the driver and pictures info is on the first page / the back is about how to pay the charge.
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See this thread:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/34j-being-in-a-bus-lane-lancashire/
That's the location for the first PCN
Here's the second location
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fPxt7j2TzEfacjKS7
Looks like the OP drove all the way up Corporation Street and hence passed the two bus gates. We need to see all pages of the PCN to see if the same fatal errors are present. There is a warning about the bus gate before one gets t them: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/o63qKeBZbdPfEBY99
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See this thread:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/34j-being-in-a-bus-lane-lancashire/
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https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wevwgjmyxvcdaud5ibivi/Photo-18-03-2025-01-39-16.jpg?rlkey=l2tnf3ym4kte4iy12y3hvkj33&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/fg60pr36z5ipckbyh2uxc/Photo-18-03-2025-01-39-40.jpg?rlkey=tkkcoz9kzeb26b9ix63efwn3m&dl=0
Will get the other link you mentioned
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Thank you. Here are the 2 tickets / I have embedded them but i cant see them as part of the post. Please advise.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/fg60pr36z5ipckbyh2uxc/Photo-18-03-2025-01-39-40.jpg?rlkey=tkkcoz9kzeb26b9ix63efwn3m&dl=0)
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wevwgjmyxvcdaud5ibivi/Photo-18-03-2025-01-39-16.jpg?rlkey=l2tnf3ym4kte4iy12y3hvkj33&dl=0)
You have to use a hosting site then post a link to it. It's in the instructions I posted. Forum doesn't have enough space for much. It means we don't have to pay a lot.
Please also post a GSV link to the location.
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Thank you. Here are the 2 tickets / I have embedded them but i cant see them as part of the post. Please advise.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/fg60pr36z5ipckbyh2uxc/Photo-18-03-2025-01-39-40.jpg?rlkey=tkkcoz9kzeb26b9ix63efwn3m&dl=0)
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wevwgjmyxvcdaud5ibivi/Photo-18-03-2025-01-39-16.jpg?rlkey=l2tnf3ym4kte4iy12y3hvkj33&dl=0)
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Sorry, but no good without some hard facts to work on, so please read this and update your thread accordingly: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Hi,
I have received 2 penalty charge notices for going through a bus lane, Both times the same bus lane at around a time which was within 5 minutes of each other, ( i was lost)
I received a letter dates 21/02 and then another 24/02.
They are suggested to be discounted to £35 each - which i was going to go ahead and pay. However on is £70 although it has not still even been 21 days on that either, they are both within the dates to be £35.
I am going to call them tmrw and see what the issue is,
However whilst i was not going to challenge it, it got me thinking if they can make errors on that there maybe other errors.
There is now only sa few days left for the £35 to become £70 so not sure of worth challenging or what options i have.
Thank you for your help