Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Mare84 on September 18, 2023, 10:48:59 pm

Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on March 15, 2024, 02:41:11 pm
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uEJXkGUyCV_uUK6-umgEof2cpiQ8hkTM/view).
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on February 01, 2024, 11:16:17 pm
Quote from: Mare84 on January 31, 2024, 09:18:12 am
Hi, I have had a reply from the tribunal. The council has uploaded evidence. I can respond. I also have 7 days to choose an adjudication or a telephone/video hearing? Which one do I choose? Thankyou
One key issue is whether you want to represent yourself or whether you want one of us to act as your representative, I'll drop you a PM so you have some options.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Incandescent on January 31, 2024, 12:09:26 pm
Choose the telephone/video hearing. An adjudication on the papers only is not recommended.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on January 31, 2024, 09:18:12 am
Hi, I have had a reply from the tribunal. The council has uploaded evidence. I can respond. I also have 7 days to choose an adjudication or a telephone/video hearing? Which one do I choose? Thankyou
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on January 15, 2024, 11:51:54 pm
Thankyou Incandescent! I really appreciate your time! I will do that. Thanks
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Incandescent on January 15, 2024, 10:44:06 pm
Quote from: Mare84 on January 15, 2024, 12:33:29 pm
So I just let this goto tribunal? What will happen then? Thankyou
Well, you don't just "let it go" to the tribunal, you have to register a case. For your case, all you need do at this stage is state "I rely on my formal representations against the Notice to Owner". Once you've got a date tell us, and we'll help you tidy up your reps.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on January 15, 2024, 12:33:29 pm
So I just let this goto tribunal? What will happen then? Thankyou
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Incandescent on January 02, 2024, 10:26:02 pm
Quote
What are the next steps?
They have not re-offered the discount, so it is now a total no-brainer to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal as the penalty does not increase, and there are no additional costs.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on January 02, 2024, 01:45:00 pm
Hello!
I have received notice of rejection of representations. What a complete pain in the A*se… please see screenshot of email. What are the next steps?
Thankyou

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: baroudeur on October 19, 2023, 04:16:11 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on October 19, 2023, 12:17:45 am
Surely you know where you were parked?

Anyway, if you look at the holes in the road behind your car in the fourth picture above, they match perfectly with google street view at https://maps.app.goo.gl/YqCHP3g1xBipD7aV6 as illustrated here:

(https://i.imgur.com/DD7v0dv.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/PNN5nZJ.png)

Also if you look at the GSV here https://maps.app.goo.gl/v2R5AgzvVs99g5W49 you can see the same houses at the end of the road that are in the final council image in my post at the top of this page. If you had been parked on the eastern side then the houses at the end of the road would have been the ones you can see here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/aq6uwgLgfpAC1kcw6

Therefore, you were 100% on the western side.


At 9.20 the sun would be in the east and shadows would 'point' to the west.  The shadow of the op's car, in the photos clearly shows the car is on the western side of the road.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on October 19, 2023, 12:17:45 am
Surely you know where you were parked?

Anyway, if you look at the holes in the road behind your car in the fourth picture above, they match perfectly with google street view at https://maps.app.goo.gl/YqCHP3g1xBipD7aV6 as illustrated here:

(https://i.imgur.com/DD7v0dv.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/PNN5nZJ.png)

Also if you look at the GSV here https://maps.app.goo.gl/v2R5AgzvVs99g5W49 you can see the same houses at the end of the road that are in the final council image in my post at the top of this page. If you had been parked on the eastern side then the houses at the end of the road would have been the ones you can see here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/aq6uwgLgfpAC1kcw6

Therefore, you were 100% on the western side.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on October 18, 2023, 08:55:56 am
Good morning CP, wow thankyou. I did take a look at the traffic order but it is quite overwhelming! Please may I ask, how are you sure I am on the West? Through Google maps? Sorry if this is a silly question
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on October 17, 2023, 11:59:44 pm
Quote from: Mare84 on October 17, 2023, 06:08:13 pm
Hi and thankyou for your reply.
I can see why you might think this, this was also my assumption.
However, where I parked was permit only, the other side of the road is 2 hour no return!

But all the GSV photos and links you've given us refer to the western side of the road, and by comparing the CEO photos to the google maps images I can see that you were definitely parked on the western side. The traffic order says 2 hours no return on the western side "From 33m south of the southern kerbline of Wilton Avenue southwards for 183m".

Therefore it is 2 hours no return, and the signs are wrong. If there is a conflict between the traffic order and the signs, the traffic order takes precedence.

So it's a simple challenge:

Dear Southampton City Council,

Having consulted The City of Southampton (Residents Parking) (Zones 1-12 & 16) Order 2014 I note my vehicle was parked in a parking place designated as "Parking Places with 2 hour limit (No Return Same Day) 8am - 6pm Monday to Saturday Except Permit Holders", see the second entry for the western side of Harborough Road on page 86 of the traffic order. As the CEO only observed my vehicle for 5 minutes no contravention is established.

While I appreciate the signs do not reflect the effect of the traffic order, where there is a conflict between the two the traffic order takes precedence. It follows that notwithstanding the signs, there has been no contravention.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on October 17, 2023, 06:08:13 pm
Hi and thankyou for your reply.
I can see why you might think this, this was also my assumption.
However, where I parked was permit only, the other side of the road is 2 hour no return!
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on October 14, 2023, 01:17:09 am
Photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/OnvCAx1.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/H6T7gHI.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/gbtw81x.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aP3iD5w.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/uxzVNMl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/1TEvBV0.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xX3NaiZ.jpg)

I'd like to see what others think, but just looking at the traffic order it seems you were parked in the location described in schedule 6.2.3 (Parking Places with 2 hour limit (No Return Same Day) 8am - 6pm Monday to Saturday Except Permit Holders) on page 86:

Harborough Road West From 33m south of the southern kerbline of Wilton Avenue southwards for 183m

If I'm right about that, you were legally parked all along.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on October 12, 2023, 03:48:18 pm
Hi cp8759
I have received my nto.
Please could you advise me on the representations I need to make. Thankyou so much.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on October 11, 2023, 07:25:25 pm
For later: The City of Southampton (Residents Parking) (Zones 1-12 & 16) Order 2014 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1gGJEhptzJP1uv0eplA8EW-oYhyMNs0D0).
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on September 24, 2023, 10:47:43 pm
Thank you cp. I will await the notice. I appreciate your help
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on September 24, 2023, 03:26:12 pm
It's a permit bay, not a residents' or shared use bay, so I would argue the wrong contravention code has been used.

For now just wait for the Notice to Owner.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Incandescent on September 23, 2023, 12:15:01 pm
Whilst that sign is obscured, there are others for this very long bay.  As a motorist parking in a marked bay, you are under an obligation to look for signs that give any possible restrictions of use.

Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on September 23, 2023, 11:37:09 am
Also, this is our white van parked on the day in question. The sign on GSV is just to the right of the bush. On the day in question, this sign is completely obscured by the bush.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on September 23, 2023, 11:32:26 am
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wNxXwEYE7nFmRKhF9?g_st=ic
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: John U.K. on September 23, 2023, 07:57:04 am
Please to give the link to the GSV.
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on September 22, 2023, 08:35:38 pm
Permit sign

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on September 22, 2023, 08:34:09 pm
Hi yes I am the registered owner and the v5 is up to date. Please find attached Google street view of where I parked. Also the permit sign. Thankyou

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on September 20, 2023, 11:12:06 pm
I think the PCN might have been issued for the wrong contravention code, as the bay looks like a permit bay rather than a shared use or residents' bay. So the PCN should have been issued for 16 - Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required.

The council can only enforce the contravention stated on the PCN, if that contravention did not occur the fact that some other type of contravention might have occurred is irrelevant.

I have ordered the traffic regulation order. Are you the owner of the vehicle and do you have the V5C? If so, is the address on the V5C up to date?

Also, can you please give us a google street view to the exact spot where you parked?
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on September 19, 2023, 07:52:30 pm
Pcn

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on September 19, 2023, 07:51:13 pm
Thankyou for getting back to me. I can’t find the option to update, sorry. I will attach files here

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: cp8759 on September 18, 2023, 11:56:26 pm
Have a read of this: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Then update the opening post with the PCN, photos, your representations and the rejection and we'll have a look for you.
Title: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
Post by: Mare84 on September 18, 2023, 10:48:59 pm
Hi, please could someone advise what options I have. I got a ticket parking in residents only street. I appealed because the permit had ‘blown off the dash’ whilst unloading my work van. They have rejected appeal on the basis I’ve done this before, last year I think i won a parking ticket... What can I do now? Thankyou in advance!