Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: smurf-e on September 18, 2023, 04:53:45 pm
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: cp8759 on June 07, 2024, 01:59:37 am
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: cp8759 on March 08, 2024, 04:55:48 pm
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: Hippocrates on March 08, 2024, 04:38:11 pm
Total bolleaux!
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on March 08, 2024, 04:17:09 pm
Hi All,
i've finally received a notice of rejection from Newham council. they have rejected my appeal but have still offered the £65 discount or to take it to tribunal.
@cp8759, you've already mentioned this is worth challenging at Tribunal level.
I've attached it for your advice.
Shall I make the challenge online? I have until circa 27th March to get my response in.
thanks again!
[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on January 08, 2024, 03:52:07 pm
Hi all,
not sent anything over yet, however i have been looking around the forum and found the following template: "Camera authorisation representation". using this i have drafted a representation, shall i send this off:
Dear London Borough of Newham
I challenge liability on the basis that the contravention did not occur.
Under section 4(1) of the London Local Authorities Act 1996, a PCN may only be served "on the basis of information provided by the use of a prescribed device", section 3 (1) defines a prescribed device in the following terms:
Prescribed device means a device prescribed under section 20(9) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 or a device of a description specified in regulations made for the purposes of this section by the Secretary of State.
In addition to being prescribed, the camera must also be approved, as sub-paragraphs 7(2) & (3) of Schedule 1 to the Act provide that:
(2) A record produced, or measurement made by a prescribed device shall not be admissible as evidence of a fact relevant to proceedings under paragraph 6 above unless
(a) the device is of a type approved by the Secretary of State; and
(b) any conditions subject to which the approval was given are satisfied.
(3) Any approval given by the Secretary of State for the purposes of this paragraph may be given subject to conditions as to the purposes for which, and the manner and other circumstances in which, any device of the type concerned is to be used.
In the case of the alleged contravention recorded by a TES camera (Model: Small Blue) against my vehicle, KU09KHA, I request the council to provide evidence that this camera has been approved for the purposes of paragraph 7 of Schedule 1 to the 1996 Act, in line with the requirements for devices certified under Certification of approved devices for parking and Bus Lane only: EADM049.
The council will appreciate that if its camera is not both prescribed under section 3(1) and authorised under paragraph 7 of Schedule 1, then its video is not admissible in tribunal proceedings, and therefore no contravention could be proved.
Finally, I draw the councils attention to the key case of Davy Duthieuw v London Borough of Ealing, which is listed at https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/key-cases.
Yours Faithfully
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: Hippocrates on December 30, 2023, 02:37:49 pm
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on December 30, 2023, 02:33:15 pm
ahh yes, of course. i'll wait.
thanks again
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: Hippocrates on December 30, 2023, 02:31:18 pm
Please wait for cp's advice. You have time. I do not wish to interfere as he has already agreed to represent you. The main issue is the camera. And, of course, whether they will turn up at the 5th set stage - if it gets there.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on December 30, 2023, 12:35:17 pm
thanks @Hippocrates, I've looked at previous examples on FTLA for TWOC grounds and I will add the following to my original appeal:
Further, I argue that the PCN issued is unenforceable due to a misinterpretation of the "vehicle use without consent" clause. The current grounds limits this clause to theft cases only, as evidenced by the requirement for a police report or insurance claim. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the statutory ground does not recognise other valid scenarios of unauthorised use, such as when a vehicle is used without the owner's consent by a friend or relative, in which case reporting to the police may not be relevant. The PCN's reliance on this incorrect understanding of used without consent makes it invalid in situations where the vehicle's use falls outside the strict definition of theft. Therefore, making this PCN unenforceable.
if that's ok, I will send out the response today.
thanks
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: Hippocrates on December 26, 2023, 07:01:55 pm
TWOC ground clearly fetters/limits to theft.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on December 26, 2023, 01:03:00 pm
Hi,
thanks for the quick response, i've just attached the enforcement notice. its been a 100 days since the contravention date.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: Hippocrates on December 26, 2023, 12:22:59 pm
Yes; but, we need to see the Enforcement Notice in case there are errors. I see CP is doing this one in any event.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on December 26, 2023, 11:41:01 am
Hi All,
Hope you enjoyed your festive break.
Just to give you an update, I've finally received the formal enforcement notice from Newham council, Shall i proceed with the formal representation using the same informal representation (reconsidered based on mitigating circumstances) that was previously made? or is there anything else you advice i should add to this formal representation?
Kind Regards
Smurf-e
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: cp8759 on November 05, 2023, 12:39:15 pm
You need to wait for the enforcement notice and repeat the representations again, the council will then issue a formal notice of rejection. At that point we can appeal to the tribunal.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on November 05, 2023, 10:18:20 am
Hi thanks for the response,
I have attached the rejection notice from Newham.
Also, yes please I would like you to represent me at tribunal.
What would be the next steps?
Thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: cp8759 on November 04, 2023, 05:41:59 pm
It would be useful to see it.
In any case, would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on November 03, 2023, 02:27:33 pm
Hi All,
finally received the a letter from Newham council, summarising what was said:
The bus lane were clearly signposted and it is the driver responsibility to adhere to the bus lane restriction. subsequently, there is no reason to cancel the penalty charge. The discounted payment of £65.00 will be accepted if paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of service of this letter.
would it be useful if I upload the letter as an attachment?
thanks
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: cp8759 on October 17, 2023, 06:06:27 pm
It means an appeal can be pursued on the basis that their camera is not authorised for bus lane enforcement in London. Let us know when you get the notice of rejection and we'll explain the next steps.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on October 16, 2023, 01:02:23 pm
Thanks for confirming, not sure what this mean for me? also, I'm still waiting for a response from Newham council on my appeal. it's been radio silence from them.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: cp8759 on October 16, 2023, 12:55:32 pm
This is the response from the council:
Camera make: TES Model: Small Blue Website: Home - TES Limited
The website reference seems to be for this: https://www.tes.ltd/fixed-cameras-6/#small-blue
That camera is not mentioned on their latest certificate.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on September 20, 2023, 12:10:44 pm
Thanks for this, I'll send the appeal tonight and let you know what happens from there.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: cp8759 on September 19, 2023, 11:04:29 pm
That'll do for the purposes of buying time.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: smurf-e on September 19, 2023, 12:02:26 am
Hi All,
thank you for such a swift response and thank you for linking the video.
please see my initial draft response:
Dear Newham Parking,
I am writing to formally request that the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) number PN73988500, issued to me on 12/09/23, be reconsidered based on mitigating circumstances.
On the day in question, I unintentionally entered the bus lane approximately 90 meters from its starting point. I was not aware that it was a bus lane, as I missed the initial sign indicating so. My confusion was compounded by a "bus stop" road marking, leading me to believe that the lane was simply a designated area for buses to stop to allow passenger to alight, rather than a dedicated bus lane.
I had intended to make a left turn, as evidenced by my activated left-turn indicator, captured in the council's recording. The road design appeared to suggest that the lane was open for motorists making this specific turn, which further contributed to my misunderstanding. Unfortunately, it seems I overlooked the sign indicating the lane's restricted use during a set time.
I fully acknowledge the importance of adhering to traffic laws and regulations, which are designed to maintain safety and order on the roads. However, in this instance, I believe that my actions were not deliberate but rather the result of genuine confusion and misunderstanding of the road layout and markings.
In light of the above, I kindly request that you exercise discretion in this matter and consider cancelling the PCN.
Thank you for taking the time to read my appeal, and I am hopeful for a favourable resolution of this matter.
I look forward to your response.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: cp8759 on September 18, 2023, 11:10:15 pm
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv8Og4GlKoA
I've requested the make and model of the camera, in the meantime I suggest you make a plea for discretion in order to buy time. Type up a draft and put it on here for review.
Do not pay the penalty, as there will be plenty of opportunities to get this cancelled in due course.
Title: Re: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Ce
Post by: Incandescent on September 18, 2023, 08:04:34 pm
Actually two signs, one a warning, and one at the point the bus lane starts. In addition, there is the wide white line that should have also alerted you. However, before final advice can be given, we need to see the video, so obtain it and post it here. If you don't know how, post up the reg number of your vehicle, and the PCN number. It's not looking good, though.
Title: Newham Council PCN Being in a bus lane (Camera enforcement) Barking Road E16, opposite The Rathbone Education Centre
Post by: smurf-e on September 18, 2023, 04:53:45 pm
Hello everyone,
I'm seeking your guidance on whether there's an opportunity to appeal this Parking Charge Notice (PCN). Unfortunately, I missed the initial bus lane sign and entered the lane about 90 meters in. I noticed a "bus stop" road marking, which led me to believe that the lane was simply a bus stop, rather than a dedicated bus lane. I had intended to make a left turn and, as the recording captured by the council shows, I had my indicator signalling left. Additionally, I assumed that the lane was open for motorists making this turn, as the road design seemed to suggest so. The entire length of this particular bus lane is approximately 180 meters, and it appears that I overlooked the only sign indicating its restricted use.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Link to PCN Notice: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MZS3mUx5AvlwcYrH9t-31n87IY_Yj3_z/view?usp=drive_link
Location Street view link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/5YbqeG4JfsjxF7Ao6