Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: MuBa99 on March 11, 2025, 12:10:10 pm
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I would also reiterate that attempts to set up a session were made in good faith and I expect you have previous records of successful sessions. If they force you to the tribunal, adjudicators can take that as more than mitigation based on testimony from an honest witness that there was a system glitch and not your fault.
Plus we have cases where not paying for something free has been ruled as nonsense.
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Thank you, the enforcement policy is really useful. The table on page 34 gives some instances where they would exercise discretion and I feel that my situation is similar given that I can provide evidence that I hold the required permits and cards to have benefitted from free parking. There is really no reason for me to park there without using the 30 minutes free so it's clear to me that I wouldn't... I have also managed to find my Ringgo history and it shows me doing just that for the rest of that week (and for months before and after) so I wonder if including that would help.
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If you want to go on I would base it on a polite reminder that you are a resident and there was no disadvantage to the council and enforcing serves no traffic management purpose and only provides a penalty to the council.
There is statutory guidance that authorities should act fairly. Richmond cites this in its own enforcement policy.
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https://www.richmond.gov.uk/media/trcp3yjz/parking_enforcement_cancellation_protocol.pdf
Discretion
Mitigation is the primary factor in most informal or formal representations. The
Council has the discretion to cancel any PCN where it believes that the
circumstances warrant such an action. There will always be cases that do not
meet any of the standard criteria for cancellation where the circumstances are
such that the Council may choose to cancel the PCN anyway.
Under the general principles of UK Law, enforcement authorities have a duty
to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise discretion
sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest.
Making a fair decision on cases does not require that all cases are treated
equally. It means that the individual circumstances of the case will be taken
into consideration.
The Council’s approach to the exercise of discretion is objective and without
regard to any financial interest in the penalty or decisions that may have been
taken at an earlier stage in proceedings.
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Statutory guidance
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions
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So you have no record of any sort that you made multiple attempts to pay and cannot factually counter the authority's statement in this regard. This wouldn't be a statutory defence anyway, but if you could show that the statement wasn't correct then this could tip the balance between them exercising discretion and not. But as it stands, I cannot think why they would change tack from not exercising discretion in response to formal reps.
But if they were to re-offer the discount, then what's to lose, perhaps you could even elicit a material procedural impropriety in any response.
This is the best I can offer except that any reps should be conciliatory in tone.
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Bump for any further advice re: whether to continue and what to put in the formal rep if so. The council have extended the payment date on the basis that I did not see it due to it being marked as junk.
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Thanks very much for this. My informal rep was very polite and unassuming but that doesn't seem to have made a difference! I cannot access my Ringgo history for the time of the alleged contravention as it only goes back to April on my phone, but I have multiple screenshots of having done the same every day that I've had to park in pay and display rather than a permit bay. It doesn't make sense for me to not register for the free half hour so I do do it!
How would you form the formal rep to maximise chance of still being offered the reduced rate if unsuccessful? Is it ultimately pointless given that I was parked before 5:30pm without Ringgo having registered? I'm not sure I can prove any attempt to register my parking as they say there's no log of me attempting to on their end.
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Then my reading of the instructions was pretty accurate, they're opaque verging on indecipherable and not matched by on-street realities.
In your shoes, I would focus on a legitimate attempt to register for the residue of the half-hour (and you apologise if this was not successful) and that as you had an A2 permit on display in effect the penalty reflects a 3- minute gap between time of contravention and a period of free parking beginning at 5.30.
I would think about the tone of any formal reps if you decide to continue. You don't want to be faced with the full penalty.
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I have emailed the council previously as this space used to be a pay and display with a ticket machine and option to pay by phone/Ringgo, with the signage you mention stating that it is A2, and it was changed to a pay by phone space with the machine removed a few years ago. The council communicated the change in space type, but not any change to how the permit hours would be affected, by letter to all residents. I then received a PCN for parking in the space at 6pm without payment, which I challenged on the basis that, as a previous pay and display space, the first and last hour each day were free for permit holders. The council responded admitting that this was also the case for pay by phone spaces and cancelled the charge. So I do have that in writing from the council that this space benefits from first and last hour free for permit holders.
Yes, I am the registered keeper.
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I find the instructions opaque. There is no such sign as 'A1 or A1 and A2 Pay and display' in the road and there's no plate on the non-existent payment machine.
But putting this to one side.
You were parked from at least 5.19, not 5.27.
I thought I had booked this and was surprised to get a PCN, but have found that it must not have gone through; signal is notoriously bad on this street and it often takes multiple attempts to get the app to load. I thought I had managed this time but clearly not.
IMO, you do not have a statutory defence based upon your account. The CEO was entitled to issue the PCN because you had not obtained parking rights as required, which you acknowledge.
Whether if you* carried on you could get them to revise their stance, perhaps providing further info from you side to substantiate trying to register, or even elicit a material procedural impropriety in a Notice of Rejection, no one knows. Carrying on to the NTO would involve the full penalty which they could still discount in any NOR, but it's at their discretion.
*- next stage is Notice to Owner to registered keeper. Is this you and are your DVLA details current?
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Furthermore, the parking attendant would have been well aware that my permit allows me free parking from 5:30pm and issued a notice at 5:27pm, which again gives a £30 fine for 3 minutes. This doesn't seem proportional.
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As far as I can see, the permit doesn't give any rights in a simple pay bay.
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/richmondcard/richmond_card_for_parking
Do you hold a Richmond Card?
If you live in the Borough and hold a Richmond Card, you can get 30 minutes free parking in our:
Pay and Display parking bays
Council-owned car parks
You can only park for a single session for a period of up to 30 minutes. If you wish to park for longer you must pay for the total duration of your stay.
Richmond Card and RingGo https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/resident_discounts_ringgo
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/how_to_use_ringgo
The objective facts as per the council are that there is no record of you having attempted to comply with the RingGo requirement which, if you're registered, would have entitled you to 30 mins parking only. It was not a type of bay which provided any resident permit holder benefits as far as I can tell from what you posted (and the council's photos) and therefore if you had wanted to stay beyond 30 minutes then you were required to pay. But the PCN doesn't deal with what might have happened, only what did.
What evidence do you have that the council's response is ill-considered because you can prove that you made every reasonable effort.
Just looking for an angle here.
Hi, the parking permit does give rights in a pay and display bay, here is a table setting it out: https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_permits/where_to_park
In the table it says pay and display bays can be used for a free hour at the beginning and end of each enforced period, e.g. between 8:30am and 9:30am where the parking enforcement starts at 8:30am and from 5:30pm where parking enforcement ends at 6:30pm.
I do have a Richmond card and my Ringgo account is set up so that I get a 30 minute free parking period when I "pay" to park. I do this every day when I get home from work. I park in the space outside my house, register for the half hour, and this takes me past 5:30pm at which point parking for me is free because restrictions end at 6:30pm and my permit allows me that final hour free. So, with the combination of my free 30 minutes from Ringgo because I have a Richmond card, and my A2 parking permit, I do not pay for any parking in a pay and display bay after 5pm (if the bay operation times end at 6:30pm, which these ones do).
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As far as I can see, the permit doesn't give any rights in a simple pay bay.
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/richmondcard/richmond_card_for_parking
Do you hold a Richmond Card?
If you live in the Borough and hold a Richmond Card, you can get 30 minutes free parking in our:
Pay and Display parking bays
Council-owned car parks
You can only park for a single session for a period of up to 30 minutes. If you wish to park for longer you must pay for the total duration of your stay.
Richmond Card and RingGo https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/resident_discounts_ringgo
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/how_to_use_ringgo
The objective facts as per the council are that there is no record of you having attempted to comply with the RingGo requirement which, if you're registered, would have entitled you to 30 mins parking only. It was not a type of bay which provided any resident permit holder benefits as far as I can tell from what you posted (and the council's photos) and therefore if you had wanted to stay beyond 30 minutes then you were required to pay. But the PCN doesn't deal with what might have happened, only what did.
What evidence do you have that the council's response is ill-considered because you can prove that you made every reasonable effort.
Just looking for an angle here.
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The relevant links would be as follows:
30 minutes free parking:
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machines/ringgo/resident_discounts_ringgo
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/resident_parking_discounts
Resident permit:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.richmond.gov.uk/media/24084/zone_cr_resident_permit_guidance.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjqoIGHwIqOAxWnVkEAHZEvOgwQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3XlqMAUh46bgl1SIaYj4NU
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Your claims must be enshrined in some document or other surely, perhaps also with terms and conditions.
You are being penalised for being parked at all without the right to do so. The '5 minutes' is a concession and decision-making buffer zone to ensure that any permitted activity can be checked thoroughly. IMO, without having obtained the right to park you were in contravention from when the CEO first observed the vehicle, not 5 minutes later.
By your reckoning then it would be 11 minutes of parking, which is surely not commensurate with a £60 fine given it would have been no charge.
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Your claims must be enshrined in some document or other surely, perhaps also with terms and conditions.
You are being penalised for being parked at all without the right to do so. The '5 minutes' is a concession and decision-making buffer zone to ensure that any permitted activity can be checked thoroughly. IMO, without having obtained the right to park you were in contravention from when the CEO first observed the vehicle, not 5 minutes later.
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I infer that the OP parked until well beyond 5.30, therefore well more than 8 minutes. Surely concessions have to end some time? Why is 8 mins not OK?
IMO, unless you can counter their claim that there is no record of you even attempting to procure your free parking period (and as a resident you presumably knew that a successful log-in would have been accompanied by confirmation of some sort) then based upon what we know I don't see that you have other than mitigation.
Except that the contravention is for non-payment.
We need to see whatever authority you have as a resident to obtain 30 minutes' free parking for nothing subject to obtaining a virtual online permit or whatever it's called. The traffic sign in evidence says Pay by phone until 6.30 pm. How do you get 30 minutes and then an hour free? Pl explain. Perhaps there's mileage in the contravention description?
I am a resident and therefore entitled to 30 minutes free parking in any pay and display space. Had the Ring go "payment" gone through, I would have had free parking up to and after 5:30pm. However, as a resident with a parking permit, I do not need to pay anything after 5:30pm as we get the first and last hour of the day free. So the spaces are operating 8:30-18:30 for non-residents, but 9:30-17:30 for residents. Given that the PCN was issued at 17:27, I was therefore penalised for 3 minutes of parking.
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I infer that the OP parked until well beyond 5.30, therefore well more than 8 minutes. Surely concessions have to end some time? Why is 8 mins not OK?
IMO, unless you can counter their claim that there is no record of you even attempting to procure your free parking period (and as a resident you presumably knew that a successful log-in would have been accompanied by confirmation of some sort) then based upon what we know I don't see that you have other than mitigation.
Except that the contravention is for non-payment.
We need to see whatever authority you have as a resident to obtain 30 minutes' free parking for nothing subject to obtaining a virtual online permit or whatever it's called. The traffic sign in evidence says Pay by phone until 6.30 pm. How do you get 30 minutes and then an hour free? Pl explain. Perhaps there's mileage in the contravention description?
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I would go on with this. They are penalising you for 3 mins of free time and this doesn't pass the duty to act fairly in my view.
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Unfortunately this went to my junk mail so deadline for reduced payment is Friday, can anyone suggest whether it's worth formal representations?
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Thank you both, done, I await their response!
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+1.
Remember, the contravention occurred at 17.27 so you don't need to go into what might have been your rights after 17.30.
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Submit non-confrontational informal representations based on your narrative here, like "am resident so entitled to 30 free minutes etc, thought time had been booked, so surprised about the PCN". Request cancellation because as a resident no parking fee would have been payable anyway. P{Post up their reply when you get it.
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Bump for help please
(https://imgur.com/a/o577Qt5)
Apologies meant also to tag @cp8759 in original post!
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Good afternoon all
Thank you for providing this forum and your help.
I have received this PCN from parking in a pay by phone space. I arrived at the space just after 5pm. In line with my resident status, I am entitled to 30 minutes free on Ringgo. I thought I had booked this and was surprised to get a PCN, but have found that it must not have gone through; signal is notoriously bad on this street and it often takes multiple attempts to get the app to load. I thought I had managed this time but clearly not.
Had this gone through successfully, this would have taken me past 5:30pm, at which point I am entitled to park for free (1 hour before the parking restrictions end). I would therefore have paid nothing for the entire stay.
Is there any point appealing?
Thank you for any help.
(https://imgur.com/a/o577Qt5)
I can't see the image loading so here is the direct link https://imgur.com/a/o577Qt5
Unfortunately google street view shows an old set up, the pay and display machine is no longer there.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iEbcHcVLqZarYV9Z9