Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: PurpleOrchid on March 10, 2025, 10:41:05 pm

Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on June 17, 2025, 09:50:08 am
Once again, I refer you to the first paragraph in the response given in post #18.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on June 16, 2025, 11:17:18 pm
Hi,

So another letter received telling me my case has been escalated, final warning and I have lost the right to appeal and I owe £170.

They will advise their client to start legal action next week now if I do nothing.

They will submit evidence that 5 contact attempts have been ignored and my charge may rise to £235 including court fees if unsuccessful in court.

letter attached for the record.

How is it looking from your perspective about likely hood it will go to court? 

thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on May 31, 2025, 10:45:39 pm
Hi

For the record - I received the following letter (and of course I refer myself to your post
#18 )

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on May 12, 2025, 11:52:29 pm
You are again referred to post #18.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on May 12, 2025, 11:16:07 pm
Hello,

I see you are away - anyhow for the record I have received today another letter with more threats

copy attached.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: DWMB2 on April 24, 2025, 10:23:45 pm
Quote from: PurpleOrchid on April 24, 2025, 10:12:00 pm
I cannot say I am not a little worried now.
That is their aim.

Re-read reply #18
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on April 24, 2025, 10:12:00 pm
Hello,

I received another letter (delivered yesterday) from Debt Recovery Plus demanding £170 or make contact in 7 days or if ignored they write 'legal recovery actions will begin and the right to appeal will be lost by not responding'.

Also included was a 'Terminal Notice Pre-Legal Action' letter - listing a load of criteria that would support  potential legal action and also referring to the online sites suggesting private parking charges don't need to be paid that this is not the case provided their criteria listed on the letter are met.

Is there a chance I may end up in court needing to defend myself  - I cannot say I am not a little worried now.

kind regards

PO


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 30, 2025, 06:00:04 pm
Hi,
Thanks so much for your feedback - so of course I will keep ignoring until some other communication comes my way (and I will notify you) or not get anything hopefully!

kind regards
PO
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on March 29, 2025, 01:57:24 am
Ignore useless debt recovery letters. They are powerless to do anything except try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear.

Do you have any understanding of how someone gets a CCJ? Nothing we advise on here will make anyone get a CCJ.

Quote
A County Court Judgment (CCJ) does not just happen—it follows a clear legal process. If someone gets a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private parking company, here's what happens step by step:

1. Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued

• The parking company sends a letter (Notice to Keeper) demanding money.

• This is not a fine—it’s an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

2. Opportunity to Appeal

• The recipient can appeal to the parking company.

•If rejected, they may be able to appeal to POPLA (if BPA member) or IAS (if IPC member).

• If an appeal is lost or ignored, the parking company demands payment.

3. Debt Collection Letters

• The parking company might send scary letters or pass the case to a debt collector.

• Debt collectors have no power—they just send letters and can be ignored.

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

4. Letter Before Claim (LBC)

• If ignored for long enough, the parking company (or their solicitor) sends a Letter Before Claim (LBC).

• This is a warning that they may start a court case.

• The recipient has 30 days to reply before a claim is filed.

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

5. County Court Claim Issued

• If ignored or unpaid, the parking company may file a claim with the County Court.

• The court sends a Claim Form with details of the claim and how to respond.

• The recipient has 14 days to respond (or 28 days if they acknowledge it).

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

6. Court Process

• If the recipient defends the claim, a judge decides if they owe money.

• If the recipient ignores the claim, the parking company wins by default.

• No CCJ happens yet unless the recipient loses and ignores the court.

7. Judgment & Payment

• If the court rules that money is owed, the recipient has 30 days to pay in full.

• If they pay within 30 days, no CCJ goes on their credit file.

• If they don’t pay within 30 days, the CCJ stays on their credit file for 6 years.

Conclusion

CCJs do not appear out of thin air. They only happen if:

• A parking company takes the case to court.

• The person loses or ignores the case.

• The person fails to pay within 30 days.

If you engage with the process (appeal, defend, or pay on time), no CCJ happens.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 28, 2025, 11:06:37 pm
I received this letter yesterday.

The letter is showing a process for legal action ending in county court judgement...'  on the back to get scary!

So I guess I am looking for advice with this communication please?


Many thanks
PO

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Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 18, 2025, 10:57:51 pm
Thank you for your time and advice.

regards PO
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on March 18, 2025, 01:57:44 am
Just ignore everything except a Letter of Claim (LoC) if you ever get one. You are dealing with feckwits of the highest order.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 17, 2025, 09:12:20 pm
Yes exactly as said, there was nothing enclosed or attached to their email.
 
Yep - no mention of any other letters sent to me, ..and yes, my only letter I got had date of issue 6/11/2024.
 
So yes, no reference to reminder letters and they only talk about the (not) enclosed letter saying date of issue on it was 3/1/2025.

also, the email address they used is a donotreply@smartparking.com  - so of course they don't want any response!

thanks
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on March 17, 2025, 07:08:11 pm
What "copy enclosed" enclosure did they send with that? A copy of the original NtK or a copy of their proof of posting?

WTF do they mean when you already stated that the date of the alleged contravention was 28th October 2024. You also stay that "the letter date of issue" was 6th November 2024 and that you only received on 13th January 2024, but they then state in their response that the NtK was issued on 3rd January?

Please show us any enclosures they sent with that pathetic response.

Their response makes no mention of any other reminder letters being sent, which suggests that this may have been their only letter. Their claim that the matter is with Debt Recovery Plus (DRP) does not absolve them from addressing your formal complaint.

Your complaint required them to prove they have a valid contract allowing them to issue PCNs at the site. Instead of providing this, they simply repeated generic claims about signage and contract law.

Their response suggests they either never sent an earlier letter or are trying to dodge accountability. Since they failed to prove PoFA compliance, they cannot hold you liable as the Keeper.

Once you have answered my questions above and shown what they did enclose with the letter, I will be able to suggest a response to them.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 17, 2025, 06:20:18 pm
I got this reply today from 'Smart Parking' :

Parking Charge Notice : TC85150466


Thank you for your recent communication.

As per the Private Parking Single Sector Code of Practice June 2024 (clause 8.4.1a), all appeals must be submitted within 28 days of the Notice to Keeper being issued. Clause 10.1. also notes that if a driver, keeper or hire company does not respond to a notice, subsequent correspondence or a parking charge has not been paid in full, the Parking Charge then becomes overdue after 28 days. Due to the length of time the PC has been open, this has now been referred to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd, who are handling this on our behalf. Please contact them directly if you wish to discuss this further.

Furthermore, would like to make you aware that we have no hold over the Royal Mail postal services, however we can confirm that the PC was issued to you on 03/01/2025  and promptly posted (please find copy enclosed).
 
Debt Recovery Plus: 0208 234 6775 or 0141 301 2355

We note the comments made within your appeal however, we cannot rescind the Parking Charge  on this basis. When using the car park in question you must adhere to the advertised Terms and Conditions, and it is the responsibility of the driver to ensure they acknowledge the signage upon entering the site. We can confirm that there is signage on entrance to, and around the car park grounds. All signage is BPA approved and compliant with The Private Parking Single Code of Practice.

All signs on site are compliant with the British Parking Association (BPA) and The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice June 2024.  Signs and Surface markings must be designed, applied and maintained in such a way as to be visible, legible and unambiguous to drivers. Clause 3.1.1, of the single code states that "An entrance sign must be displayed and maintained at the entrance to controlled land to inform drivers as appropriate whether parking is permitted subject to terms and conditions, including payment, or is prohibited, unless: subject to terms and conditions, including payment, or is prohibited". It also states in clause 3.1.3 a) that signs must be placed within the controlled land, such that drivers have the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. There are several signs situated around the car park that advise of the tariff, terms and conditions, we can confirm all signage on site is BPA approved, and compliant with The Private Parking Single Code of Practice. Please be aware all signs are set to a standardised height, regulations and written in clearly and intelligible language. There is no ambiguous language or jargon on any of the Smart Parking signs at this site.

The car park is sited on private land, and the owners allow access to the public, with use subject to the Terms and Conditions of parking, which are advertised on signs situated around the site. The PCs are enforceable under Contract Law; upon entering and remaining upon the car park you agree to the terms and conditions which are clearly stated on the signage. Your vehicle was parked in breach of these terms and conditions therefore we must advise the PC was correctly issued and remains outstanding.

We wish to inform that the car park in question is operated by an ANPR cameras system which captures images of your vehicle entering and exiting the site, which subsequently calculates your total stay duration- this is calculated from the time of entrance to the time of exit. This information is then compared with the terms and condition of the site, along with any validation we have with regards to your Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM), to establish whether or not terms and conditions have been breached without authorisation.

We can confirm that the convention occurred due to overstaying the maximum free parking time. As stated on the signage, there is a maximum stay period of 120 minutes. This restriction is in place for all motorists.  However, your vehicle remained on site for 228 minutes, which resulted in an 108  minute overstay. As your vehicle remained on site in excess of the maximum free parking time, we can confirm that the advertised Terms and Conditions were breached, and the PC has been correctly. The Terms and Conditions of the car park are clearly advertised around the site and must be adhered to by all drivers

Yours sincerely,

Smart Parking Ltd

------------------------------

They don't mention about having sent any other reminder letters and there was no 'copy enclosed' in the email response (no attachment or in the body).  So their only letter was posted 'promptly??' on 3rd Jan and it took 10 days??? 

Of course I won't be contacting the debt recovery people.  I look forward to your thoughts and advice.

many thanks
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 14, 2025, 06:07:13 pm
I received this acknowledgement yesterday - 13.3.25:

Parking Charge Notice: TC85150466
Thank you for your recent communication.
We can confirm that your appeal has been received and that all action has been suspended pending adjudication. We will endeavour to respond to your appeal within 28 days.
If your appeal has been received within 28 days of issue of the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) and your appeal is unsuccessful, the PCN will revert to the amount outstanding at the point of appeal and the payment terms will be extended.
Please remember to check your junk and spam folders periodically.
Yours sincerely,
Smart Parking Limited
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on March 12, 2025, 12:16:56 pm
OK. However, if English is not your first language, you should ask for assistance when drafting something like this.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 12, 2025, 07:31:13 am
My communication was, hope it was OK :
-------
I am writing to give you a formal letter of complaint.

Date of alleged contravention was on 28/10/24, the letter date of issue was 6/11/24 and this was received in post on 13/1/2025. No other letter has been received, before or after.

(Date of contravention + two working days after the date of issue = deemed date given to me) . It was over 14 days, so it is not PoFA compliant.  To be clear, your Notice to Keeper was delivered after the 14 day deadline.

In order to be able to hold the Keeper liable, I require evidence from you of the actual date it was entered into the postal system, as required by the PPSCoP section 8.1.2(e) Note 2.

Also, I will require evidence that Smart hold a valid contract flowing from the landowner permitting you to issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) at the location.

Regards
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on March 12, 2025, 03:19:30 am
It hasn't increased to £280!!! Please read everything carefully. A debt collector letter is nothing but a scare tactic to make low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear. They are powerless to do anything and you must ignore them.

Only the operator or their legal representative can issue a Letter of Claim (LoC) and even then, you are not required to respond. It just means that after 30 days, they can then issue a claim.

(Not so) Smart are nothing to fear. No one pays them if they follow our advice.

What exactly did you put in your formal complaint? You are now waiting for a response to that.

There is not much more you can do at this atGE and you are in fact waiting for an LoC which you should show us when you receive it. Anything else that comes from a useless debt collector can be safely ignored.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 12, 2025, 12:25:03 am
also added redacted pcn notice from Smart Parking

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 12, 2025, 12:05:04 am
Hi again,

I have uploaded the 3 letters.

kind regards

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on March 11, 2025, 11:40:19 pm
That doesn't sound like a debt recovery letter but rather a Letter of Claim (LoC). please show us the letter. Only redact your personal info.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 11, 2025, 10:06:01 pm
Thank you for your advice.

I have sent my formal complaint as advised  - I did this through their website in the appeals section, stating it is a letter of complaint.

Today, I have received a second debt recovery letter with charges, of course increased now to £280. 
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on March 11, 2025, 12:41:28 pm
You should send Smart Parking a formal letter of complaint stating that their Notice to Keeper was delivered after the 14 day deadline in order to be able to hold the Keeper liable and you require evidence from them of the actual date it was entered into the postal system, as required by the PPSCoP section 8.1.2(e) Note 2.

Mention also that you will require evidence that Smart hold a valid contract flowing from the landowner permitting them to issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) at the location.
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 11, 2025, 07:29:09 am
Hi,

Many thanks for your reply, the date of contravention was on 28/10/24, letter date of issue was 6/11/24 and received  in post on 13/1/2025.

I didn't appeal and I did not get a POPLA code - will this now be a problem? 

many thanks
Title: Re: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: b789 on March 11, 2025, 02:48:21 am
READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)

What was the date of the alleged contravention. It matters not the actual date you received the notice but the date it was deemed given to you which is two working days after the date of issue. Date of contravention + two working days after the date of issue = deemed date it was given to you. If it was over 14 days, then it is not PoFA compliant.

Did you appeal and did you get a POPLA code?
Title: Carlton Court Smart Parking PCN
Post by: PurpleOrchid on March 10, 2025, 10:41:05 pm
I am looking for some advise about a Smart Parking Charge Notice received on 13th January 2015.
 
The alleged offence for leaving the car in the car park for longer than 2 hours on 28/10/24. Letter issued date 6/11/2024. - I received it 13/01/2025. So I got this letter over 28 days (28 days = 4.12.24)  for the issued date which deemed the instructions a nonsense.  I received no other letter from Smart Parking.
 
It was evening so dark. There is another small carpark in close proximity and that one has no such 24 hour rule for how long a car is parked in the evening  (owned by the council). This car park used to have no restrictions in the evenings.
 
I attach photos. I was parked in the middle area so not near any obvious and lit up signs.
 
There is an unclearly worded notice next to the Coop sign at the entrance - but no lights on it at night and I assumed the 2 hours didn't apply after 6 as per the other carpark. There are other very very small signs around the carpark with no lighting. Easily obscured by cars. You have to walk up close to find and read them. There never used to be this restriction so it was unexpected.   Also, if you google search – I could not even find that there is Smart Parking car park in that location.
 
The 2nd letter I got is the Debt Recover letter on 18/02/2025, however it refers as being the 4th letter which it is definitely NOT!
 
The car registration is a vehicle not owned by me. I am no longer a temporary keeper of it.
 
I have not responded to either letters. Please can someone advise what I should do now?