Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Hihun111 on September 17, 2023, 12:34:15 am
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Actually this is not totally correct about petrol cars before 2003 being non-compliant, our Fiesta registered Jan 2000, is complaint and has a 'certificate of conformity' as Ford was an earlier adopter of Euro 4 on some of there vehicles.
BTW
"I know nothing of all this ridiculous emissions stuff!"
You do need to rapidly get up to speed on these zones because they're going in all over the place, and the councils are dining out very generously on the proceeds. Just so you are aware, a petrol car built before about 2003 and diesel before 2015 are not compliant with the emissions limits for these zones. The recent ULEX expansion in London covers the whole of the London area and the PCN penalties are eye-watering.
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I keep coming back to this one and must admit I am 50/50 at best.
I take as read that the council will reject, whether they will re-offer the discount, as CP says, dunno.
I am looking at chances if it gets to adjudication and simply not sure how it would go.
The sign on the right that is facing traffic is mis-leading.
An adjudicator could easily use that and the minimal intrusion into the zone to cancel the PCN.
But another could just as easily uphold the PCN.
Neither would be wrong in law, how misleading and how minimal are subjective and subject to the whims of the adjudicator.
Your money, your choice...30 notes (net 20 as CP said) or double or nothing gamble.
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You could make a plea for discretion, basically just asking to be let off for a first time contravention. I can't see any procedural flaws in the paperwork.
The problem we have is that for most councils we know whether they reoffer the discount or not, but this is our first Oxford ZEZ PCN so we have no way of knowing whether the discount would be extended if they reject the representation.
On the other hand the daily charge is £10, so if you pay the discounted penalty you've only actually lost £20. When you consider that in London the ULEZ penalty is £180 discounted to £90 for the first 14 days, you're really talking about a de-minimis amount.
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I saw one sign so I knew the zez was coming, but then that sign on an angle had me thinking it was straight ahead. If there’s nothing else to be said I’ll just pay it
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Any thoughts? I hate this hanging over me
Basically, appeals against PCNs are won either on whether the contravention occurred or not, usually but not exclusively on the signage on the street, (missing, not visible etc), or on the PCN, and errors of its mandatory content, and the management of its enforcement. That's why we like to see the PCN.
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You would have driven past this sign first, which is further down George street before you get to the entrance of New Inn Hall Street...the entrance to which is roughly where the bus is on the street view image.
Had you carried on up George St much further you would have gone through the no cars/bike "gate" which is reserved for buses.
See
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Vpaxptbwa5DkgbeG9
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Any thoughts? I hate this hanging over me
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Whoops. Thought I already did!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Doesn’t really look like I have a leg to stand on does it
We have no idea until we see the rest of the PCN. We see flawed paperwork from councils all the time, so post it up and we'll have a look.
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Doesn’t really look like I have a leg to stand on does it
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Likely only to be resolved with a copy of the deposited plan??
Isn't that just going to be a print-out of https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/sites/default/files/file/roads-and-transport/Zero_Emission_Zone_Plan.pdf (https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/sites/default/files/file/roads-and-transport/Zero_Emission_Zone_Plan.pdf)?
.........
Seems to be.
The interactive map I linked to yesterday gave me the impression the boundary was further into the road.... doesn't seem to today???
A glitch with me or my computer?
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Likely only to be resolved with a copy of the deposited plan??
Isn't that just going to be a print-out of https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/sites/default/files/file/roads-and-transport/Zero_Emission_Zone_Plan.pdf (https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/sites/default/files/file/roads-and-transport/Zero_Emission_Zone_Plan.pdf)?
On a more optimistic note the PCN conflates the concepts of service and delivery, which has had some success recently at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal (more than I expected to be honest).
We definitely want to see the remaining pages as there might be more issues.
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I wasn’t aware of it. I didn’t see the sign for the road I was driving down, I thought it was applying to the high street ahead
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The plan here
https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/oxford-zero-emission-zone-zez/view-map-zez
Suggests that although you may have passed the signs, you may not have actually entered the zone.
The wording says the whole of New Hall so suggests you did, as do the signs.
A definite anomally which leaves doubt.
The order doesn't help
https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/sites/default/files/file/roads-and-transport/Oxford_Zero_Emission_Zone_master_order.pdf
Likely only to be resolved with a copy of the deposited plan??
I have to ask, given that you seem to have been aware of entering the zone, why did you not pay?
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That’s the one I have to hand. The back was just about how to make reps but I’m not at home atm
We have often found fatal errors in the routine stuff on the back of a PCN that makes it void. Most London ones are now OK, but we don't often see PCNs from outside London, so it's always best to check them for errors.
Having looked at the Oxford ZEZ, all non-electric vehicles must pay. They intend to make the zone larger in 2025, to cover all of central Oxford. Barmy ! But they get away with it.
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That’s the one I have to hand. The back was just about how to make reps but I’m not at home atm
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Please post the PCN, (all sides) as we have yet to see an Oxford one for this low emissions zone. Only blank out name and address.
BTW
"I know nothing of all this ridiculous emissions stuff!"
You do need to rapidly get up to speed on these zones because they're going in all over the place, and the councils are dining out very generously on the proceeds. Just so you are aware, a petrol car built before about 2003 and diesel before 2015 are not compliant with the emissions limits for these zones. The recent ULEX expansion in London covers the whole of the London area and the PCN penalties are eye-watering.
The Oxford scheme is for zero emissions vehicles, so even a low-emission vehicle must pay. This is the only zero zone I'm aware of.
https://www.oxford.gov.uk/zez
Oxford has gone completely barmy, but barminess seems to be catching on !
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Hi all, I drove down a road in Oxford because I was turning around to avoid the stupid ZEZ. What I didn’t realise was the road was also covered, because I didn’t see a sign for it on the right. There was a sign ahead which I did see but its angle led me to believe it was for the road straight on. As it happened, I drove in to the ZEZ, parked up by the camera, had a massive argument with my other half then turned around and drove straight out of it.
I’ve attached a photo showing the oddly facing sign and will attach another showing the one I missed below this.
Date posted 13/09/2023
Date vehicle in zone 29/08/23
Date charge was due by 04/09/2023
Do I have any grounds of appeal at all? I know nothing of all this ridiculous emissions stuff!
Thanks
Here’s a link to the place
https://maps.app.goo.gl/55NzeBcXeCuvPdNA9?g_st=ic